I don't know much about these or what they are worth so looking for a little help. He says the rifle is in 95% condition and has a matching bolt. It has the original sling and I think he said it has the cleaning rod. Says the bore is great also. The disk on the stock is marked to a Hitler Youth unit in Hamburg. He says by the serial number it was made in 1939. I'm supposed to see this tomorrow and will take some photos. He's asking $1600, if the information is correct, is this a fair price? Thanks
Mauser dsm 34
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KKW22cal
Well-known member
Pictures would be helpful as I would want to see the marking and determine what I think the condition is. I find that sellers tend to be optimistic when they rate the condition of the rifle they are selling. I know many times people call the DSM they are selling a Mauser when it was made by another manufacturer. Who is the maker of the rifle? DSM markings include Suhl, Greenheart, Walther, Geco, Menz, Paatz, Simpson, Anshultz, BSW, and several others. Does the rifle have an original stacking rod, does it come with a sling, and/or has the rifle stock been refinished? All these variables affect the value. Has the rifle been duffle cut? I am not bothered as much by that but other collectors are, so I would take that in consideration. $1,600.00 is a healthy price for a DSM, I would be trying to buy it for closer to the $1,200.00 if I liked the Hitler Youth Marking on the rifle. If you buy it, please post pictures. There are others more knowledgable than me that might chime in. As long as you are happy with the price, all is good in the end.
Bob in OHIO
Senior Member
I suggest pictures here first, to assist in valuation. As KKW has written, many variables to consider which add too, or subtract from valuation. If the seller is correct about 1939 mfg, it likely is a Mauser, but what he really has is good to know before trying to buy. 1600 is okay if the rifle is a kick-a$$, provenance rich rifle, but the devil is in those details...
luftmacher
Senior Member
Last time I checked, the going market price of "he says" was all over the place from very little to quite a lot. Hard to offer an opinion on that.
Steve
Steve
Bob in OHIO
Senior Member
Thanks for responding. It has a banner on it so it's a Mauser. I'll try to restrain myself and get some photos on here before I buy. Sometime that is hard. He's also bringing a k-date Luger with mismatched mag to tempt me. Says that one is 98%.
There are diff reasons to buy. I just bought a 3K trainer... just 'cause it was nice. Not fiscally prudent, but I'm a collector/hobbyist. If you like what you see, and it's not your first rodeo, and you feel good about the guns than go forward. IMO, if Lugers and trainers are new areas, then be more prudent.
Lugers, I'm familiar with. Trainers, I'm a novice. No Luger today, maybe a trainer.
KKW22cal
Well-known member
I have more training rifles than I need but not even close to the number I want. My goal is to get one example of each maker and as many variants as I can find for each maker. There is a book in the works on training rifles, my hope is it increases interest in this area. I hope you are able to get the rifle for the price that you are comfortable with.
luftmacher
Senior Member
Nice rifle. Manufacture date would have been late spring/early summer of 1937, actually. The sling appears to be for a K98k. As for the unit marking on the stock disc, perhaps some of the others here who are more familiar with unit numbering can help you identify that, and it should also give you a general location of where it was in use. I do not know if that is HJ, or SA, or perhaps some other organization.
Steve
Steve
luftmacher
Senior Member
Another thought: Don't know if this rifle came with any provenance as far as a "capture story" but I notice "Hamburg" on the tag which is partly visible in one photo. Hamburg was home of the SA's 12. Brigade, I believe, and the 135 might be Standarte? Just guesswork, on my part. Most SA unit marks I've seen are two numbers separated by a slash, and I think those indicate Sturm/Standarte as a rule. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken on that. Again, just guesswork.
Steve
Steve
Seller said he looked it up and that's what that's worth. Only other mark I can find is a S in the wood by the bolt.
zacker
Senior Member
The first number would be the Gefolgschaft or group#, second# is the Bann#, the HJ lists Bann #s 135, 1/135, 2/135, but no 12/135, those #s are for the Mark, Hagen area, Hagen in the state of NorthRhine-Westphalia, Bann 2/135 was dissolved on Aug.1 1937, these numbers give the time frame 1933-42, in 42 was listed as only Mark, #s and cities where changed often as territory was gained then lost.
Thank you for the reply Zacker. Are you saying 12/135 is not a good number or we don't know?
zacker
Senior Member
I would lean towards that, and research Steve's opinion about the SA. As you should know, #s, award plaques, etc. have been added to these trainers to deceive for a long time now. I have a HJ DSM and SA BSW but posted guns researched the tags, stamps BEFORE I even thought about buying one, and lucky to have nearby collector/friend with over 30 yrs experience, and over 1,200 of these trainers for a in-hand inspection.
Steve, I believe the Hamburg connection was written by the seller on the tag.
I don't see any reason to dismiss the possibility of the markings indicating rack number and Bann number. SA rifles were often marked with the Gruppe marking and this has none. Of course that doesn't mean an SA connection should be dismissed, but an HJ connection of rifle #12 (small font) of Bann 135 makes just as good sense. And that area was in the line of US troops and logically supports the rifle being returned by a US vet.
I don't see any reason to dismiss the possibility of the markings indicating rack number and Bann number. SA rifles were often marked with the Gruppe marking and this has none. Of course that doesn't mean an SA connection should be dismissed, but an HJ connection of rifle #12 (small font) of Bann 135 makes just as good sense. And that area was in the line of US troops and logically supports the rifle being returned by a US vet.