New guy with BNZ 43 questions

[cabow]

Hey there! Just joined and was looking to tap the expertise here in the forums before I take the plunge on a K98. The one I'm looking at seems to be a mostly matching C block BNZ Steyr 43 in decent shape. The metal looks to all match except for the buttplate, and (I assume) the front sling loop since I can't see under the sling. Stock does not match either. I went through the picture reference thread and there were a couple in there that matched up with what I am seeing here.

I am looking at several RC K98s as well, but based on what I have read $600-$700 or so seems to be a decent price these days so I am confident paying that if this ends up being pricier than I imagined.

What would be a good price for this particular one assuming it is mostly correct?

 

[cabow]

Added a few more pics.

 

[swjXE]

I'd rather have this than a Russian capture even with the terrible stock and bands. You can always repair the stock or find a better one and get better bands, If you can you get it for a decent price.
Looking at the bore, it looks like it might be a decent shooter too.

 

[cabow]

Getting a good shooter is definitely what I am most interested in, so getting one that also has most of its numbers matching would be the icing on the cake.

Much appreciated for the input!

 

[Zeppelin5000]

"Mostly matching" just means not matching. The stock being mismatched is the biggest hit on rifle value. The front band is wrong and the rear band is probably mismatched as you mentioned. I'd say the rifles value isn't far off from RC prices and wouldn't pay more than $800-$900.

 

[Sauer_Kraut]

Sling is Israeli. Brass oxidation, and the serial stamp are tell tall signs of a postwar sling.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Getting a good shooter is definitely what I am most interested in, so getting one that also has most of its numbers matching would be the icing on the cake.

Much appreciated for the input!

looks like that stock has pretty bad recoil lug setback, disqualifies it as a good shooter. this is why the wrist is cracked……
pass.

 

[Muncher 1953]

"Mostly matching" just means not matching. The stock being mismatched is the biggest hit on rifle value. The front band is wrong and the rear band is probably mismatched as you mentioned. I'd say the rifles value isn't far off from RC prices and wouldn't pay more than $800-$900.

I agree with your assessment of the rifle, but apart from the use of the term ‘mostly matching’ in a sales pitch, I think it’s a valid term for collectors, knowing exactly what is & what isn’t matching. Stock mismatch is surely a bigger hit than bolt mismatch, but either is a big step above a rifle assembled entirely of random mismatched Mauser parts.

 

[cabow]

looks like that stock has pretty bad recoil lug setback, disqualifies it as a good shooter. this is why the wrist is cracked……
pass.

10-4 looks like I'll need to look elsewhere. Thanks for the info, didn't see that at first.

 

[cabow]

looks like that stock has pretty bad recoil lug setback, disqualifies it as a good shooter. this is why the wrist is cracked……
pass.

Since it was on my mind still, I ran across another one that has no evidence of the stock cracking, but does have damage above the recoil lug. Would this cause a problem if it were to be treated as a shooter? The recoil lug itself looks to be still secure, but the wood damage above is close enough to make me question it's integrity.

 

[heavy_mech]

Since it was on my mind still, I ran across another one that has no evidence of the stock cracking, but does have damage above the recoil lug. Would this cause a problem if it were to be treated as a shooter? The recoil lug itself looks to be still secure, but the wood damage above is close enough to make me question it's integrity.

That damage doesn't look to be structural and isn't related to lug setback. That normally happens when it's fired with full powered ammo when the action is not tightly secured in the stock.

 

[cabow]

That damage doesn't look to be structural and isn't related to lug setback. That normally happens when it's fired with full powered ammo when the action is not tightly secured in the stock.

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll try and get some more info on this one and maybe go for it.

 

[Muncher 1953]

what I see in your 2 new pics doesn’t concern me the same as the first.

Other than the gap in front of the lug head & nut, the only way to be sure is to remove the receiver/barrel & trigger guard from the stock (often not possible to do pre-sale) & look closely with bright light at the wooden ‘wall’ in front of the cartridge box and behind the recoil lug. Look at it from both top & bottom of the stock, what you’ll be hoping is NOT there is a crack line about 1/4” below where the bottom of the receiver sits, across the stock from left to right. Sometimes there’s no gap, but you’ll see a shadow line where a block of wood has shifted aftwards. Even if the lug can’t be moved around, this has to be repaired for a shooter. shimming behind the lug against moving wood has no supportive effect, and the wrist will eventually crack.
I’ll post some pics from another device in a bit.

 

[cabow]

Yeah all the ones I'm looking at are out of state for me so I could only do a post sale looksee. In the case that the stock condition behind the lug is what you describe, would you be able to repair it with a strong wood glue or epoxy?

As an aside, I've been scouring the picture reference thread for stock serial numbers and where they're stamped. I am looking at a bcd 4 rifle (I guess this is the 3rd I've introduced here) and it has the matching serial number stamped right next to the "C" on the bottom of the butt stock. Is this just a case of "sometimes they did sometimes they didn't? The fact that it is touted as all matching but has an electropenciled safety lever make it's starting bid of $1100 too high anyway I would think.

 

[cabow]

Yeah all the ones I'm looking at are out of state for me so I could only do a post sale looksee. In the case that the stock condition behind the lug is what you describe, would you be able to repair it with a strong wood glue or epoxy?

As an aside, I've been scouring the picture reference thread for stock serial numbers and where they're stamped. I am looking at a bcd 4 rifle (I guess this is the 3rd I've introduced here) and it has the matching serial number stamped right next to the "C" on the bottom of the butt stock. Is this just a case of "sometimes they did sometimes they didn't? The fact that it is touted as all matching but has an electropenciled safety lever make it's starting bid of $1100 too high anyway I would think.

I guess looking at the pic again it seems to be on the top.

 

[swjXE]

A ww2 Gustloff factory original bcd4 would not have the serial on the outside of the stock.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Yeah all the ones I'm looking at are out of state for me so I could only do a post sale looksee. In the case that the stock condition behind the lug is what you describe, would you be able to repair it with a strong wood glue or epoxy?

As an aside, I've been scouring the picture reference thread for stock serial numbers and where they're stamped. I am looking at a bcd 4 rifle (I guess this is the 3rd I've introduced here) and it has the matching serial number stamped right next to the "C" on the bottom of the butt stock. Is this just a case of "sometimes they did sometimes they didn't? The fact that it is touted as all matching but has an electropenciled safety lever make it's starting bid of $1100 too high anyway I would think.

yes, repairs are possible, but only on the shooter rifle level, once a highly collectible rifle is fiddled with, it loses value. Done well, you can't see this repair, but it's still an out-of-period repair. pix of a (sanded) byf stock repair-in-waiting. I have some other unshrunk ones of another stock showing the broken out wood puck free of its' recess before gluing. Repair becomes a recoil lug bedding job, I don't have any pix of before/steps/after.

 

[cabow]

Thanks for the pics. Ultimately looks to be a simple fix, just a bit of work. I'd imagine though if the damage extends past the initial area of the recoil lug (especially if visible behind the bolt) that it might not be worth it to try and fix. I do think I'd rather avoid that if I can and find a shootable example with an uncompromised stock.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Thanks for the pics. Ultimately looks to be a simple fix, just a bit of work. I'd imagine though if the damage extends past the initial area of the recoil lug (especially if visible behind the bolt) that it might not be worth it to try and fix. I do think I'd rather avoid that if I can and find a shootable example with an uncompromised stock.

yes it really is a simple fix, just no going back once done. more than a few laminated stocks on the market today have this fault. (DAMHIKT) I haven’t seen it as often in solid wood stocks.