New Kar98 Mixmaster, decoding the markings

Jethro897

Member
Hi Everyone,

I've learned a lot since joining this forum and purchasing my first Kar. I picked it up on Gunbroker for something reasonable for what I figured was a Russian capture. Bore is sharp and headspace checks out, so it is a shooter, which is all I wanted. Now I'm trying to decode some of the markings. It has a matching receiver and barrel and nothing else. It has waffennampt stamps on the rear sight base (2), on the bolt disassembly disk (one on each side), and one on the front site base. No other nazi markings. There is a "G" stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip and a "W" or "M" stamped slightly further back on the stock. The receiver has a 660/1939 code for Steyr(picture included) and there is an "X" below the serial number on the receiver and barrel(picture included). The bolt handle has the serial number along the handle rather than on the bolt flat, so I figure it is a vz24 bolt that someone turned down, blued and ground off the area where the serial number would have been stretched(Picture also included).

The only problem I've had are the after-market stripper clips I picked up (https://www.amazon.com/round-Strippe...ct_top?ie=UTF8) seem to be too narrow and will go the whole way into the magazine like an en bloc clip. The stripper clip guide doesn't look ground off, but with the rest of this rifle being like Frankenstein, I wouldn't be surprised. I can actually insert the stripper clip and then pull it straight forward and out of the guide. I've read the actual stripper clip was supposed to be 0.519" wide inside the ridges and these look smaller than that from my trusty ruller, but I have a caliper on the way to check.

So with this long-a$$ story, I have three questions:

1. Does this look like an actual Steyr 1939 receiver or does it look like it was ground off and someone stamped the 660/1939 thinking it would be worth more?
2. Is this actually a Russian capture or is the X part of the S/N? From what I've read Mauser had one block that ended with "X". I've seen most russian captures stamped with the X above the serial number or on top of the receiver. it also lacks any stamp on the stock or any electo-penciled serial numbers indicative of russian captures. No import marks at all, either.
3. Did somebody grind off the stripper clip guide or did I just by shitty after-market clips?

If you need to see extra pictures to make a judgment, let me know, these were just the most pertinent things I saw. I appreciate anyone that can offer any insight.
 

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Hi Everyone,

I've learned a lot since joining this forum and purchasing my first Kar. I picked it up on Gunbroker for something reasonable for what I figured was a Russian capture. Bore is sharp and headspace checks out, so it is a shooter, which is all I wanted. Now I'm trying to decode some of the markings. It has a matching receiver and barrel and nothing else. It has waffennampt stamps on the rear sight base (2), on the bolt disassembly disk (one on each side), and one on the front site base. No other nazi markings. There is a "G" stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip and a "W" or "M" stamped slightly further back on the stock. The receiver has a 660/1939 code for Steyr(picture included) and there is an "X" below the serial number on the receiver and barrel(picture included). The bolt handle has the serial number along the handle rather than on the bolt flat, so I figure it is a vz24 bolt that someone turned down, blued and ground off the area where the serial number would have been stretched(Picture also included).

The only problem I've had are the after-market stripper clips I picked up (https://www.amazon.com/round-Strippe...ct_top?ie=UTF8) seem to be too narrow and will go the whole way into the magazine like an en bloc clip. The stripper clip guide doesn't look ground off, but with the rest of this rifle being like Frankenstein, I wouldn't be surprised. I can actually insert the stripper clip and then pull it straight forward and out of the guide. I've read the actual stripper clip was supposed to be 0.519" wide inside the ridges and these look smaller than that from my trusty ruller, but I have a caliper on the way to check.

So with this long-a$$ story, I have three questions:

1. Does this look like an actual Steyr 1939 receiver or does it look like it was ground off and someone stamped the 660/1939 thinking it would be worth more?
2. Is this actually a Russian capture or is the X part of the S/N? From what I've read Mauser had one block that ended with "X". I've seen most russian captures stamped with the X above the serial number or on top of the receiver. it also lacks any stamp on the stock or any electo-penciled serial numbers indicative of russian captures. No import marks at all, either.
3. Did somebody grind off the stripper clip guide or did I just by shitty after-market clips?

If you need to see extra pictures to make a judgment, let me know, these were just the most pertinent things I saw. I appreciate anyone that can offer any insight.
Congrats on your first 98k. Can you post a pic of the top of the receiver ring? Odd the prior owner removed the bluing on the receiver, but not the barrel. Wonder if he was trying to make a faux Gew98 with the two-tone. [emoji23] The stripper clip guide looks fine to me. The after market clips may be the culprit. Get some Yugo/Romanian surplus clips. They do the job.

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Thanks for the input! The top of the receiver ring should be attached to this post. I'm still getting used to how the forum controls work.

I'll look around for some surplus stripper clips; good to hear that the clip guide looks all right. I was surprised how few pictures I could find of that area to compare to on the internet
 

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It appears to be a scrubbed receiver that has been stamped with the 660 and 1939 markings to make it look like a German WW2 rifle. The early Steyrs were not marked that crudely. You can see that the numbering is not straight and not the correct font.

I would guess that it was a Turkish Mauser receiver or something like that. Someone removed the existing markings and crudely stamped the fake code and date. This would explain why the stripper clip guides do not seem to work for you also. Now you have the answer on why the receiver does not match the barrel finish. The parts were assembled onto the receiver to make it appear to be a German 98k. If you have a return privilege you should consider sending it back.

Whoever did this most likely numbered that receiver also. And that was likely after they removed an existing serial number. If so, pretty stupid way to steal a few extra dollars from an unknowing buyer.
 
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Definitely a faked receiver marking. Return it if at all possible.


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Oh my. That’s not good. I must agree, return it if you can. That is many things, but K98k is not one of them.


KJ
 
It appears to be a scrubbed receiver that has been stamped with the 660 and 1939 markings to make it look like a German WW2 rifle. The early Steyrs were not marked that crudely. You can see that the numbering is not straight and not the correct font.

I would guess that it was a Turkish Mauser receiver or something like that. Someone removed the existing markings and crudely stamped the fake code and date. This would explain why the stripper clip guides do not seem to work for you also. Now you have the answer on why the receiver does not match the barrel finish. The parts were assembled onto the receiver to make it appear to be a German 98k. If you have a return privilege you should consider sending it back.

Whoever did this most likely numbered that receiver also. And that was likely after they removed an existing serial number. If so, pretty stupid way to steal a few extra dollars from an unknowing buyer.

Thanks for the input, Pisgah and everyone. Unfortunately, the sale was as-is no returns from a private party, so I don't think return is an option. Since the headspace checked out, do you think this is safe to shoot? Safety functions as expected. Also, is there any risk of running afoul of the ATF if the previous owner ground off the serial number?

Since I actually received the item, I don't know if this qualifies for Gunbroker's buyer's protection or not. Anyone have experience there?

If I can keep it as a shooter at least I'd have something to show for it. I would feel bad re-selling knowing these issues.
 
Jethro,

You should know, that just about everyone here, at one time or another has been burned. So rest easy, learn from this and move on. You are definitely not alone. I cannot help you with the ATF question, but if this purchase went through an FFL and you filled out a 4473, you should be golden. Insofar as the safety of the firearm, were it me, I would just run it by a gunsmith. I only say this because we really don’t know what exactly the humper did to that receiver. But that’s just me, I’m pretty conservative when it comes to things like this. Best of luck, hang in there.


KJ
 
Are those welding voids on the top of the receiver by the barrel?

Jesus. Send that back.

I agree. That is horrific. Looks like he's got 2 rods worth of weld on that receiver. And he'd never used a welder OR grinder before he attacked this one. It's really bad.

To the OP. You should not feel so bad. Everyone has made at least one bad purchase. Learn how to spot what 'right' looks like and move on from here.
 
I agree. That is horrific. Looks like he's got 2 rods worth of weld on that receiver. And he'd never used a welder OR grinder before he attacked this one. It's really bad.

To the OP. You should not feel so bad. Everyone has made at least one bad purchase. Learn how to spot what 'right' looks like and move on from here.

Definitely welding voids. Clearly this was made to deceive. Not cool. For the OP, don’t feel bad, all of us have been burned. These may be the most faked rifles ever. Have a gunsmith check it out, who knows what the firing condition of this is.


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Thanks KJ, heavy_mech, and M1903 and everyone else. That does make me feel a bit better. At the end of the day I was just looking for a shooter anyway, so I guess not much is lost other than the long term value. I already had a gunsmith take a look and test fire it. He said everything looked good. No pitting or rust in the bore at all. Maybe I'll ask him to take another look in light of this new info.

This just seems like a lot of trouble to go to to make a few bucks through deceiving someone, but I guess some people have a lot of time on their hands. I'll be more diligent in the future.

Thanks again,
Jethro
 
Return it. Tell the seller that if he gets shitty you'll let the ATF know that he is selling rifles with altered markings and serial numbers. Let gunbroker know as well.

For the sake of safety, don't keep this around. The Mauser 98 receiver is tough, but God knows what happened to that steel. If you do keep it for some reason, I'd chop it up for parts.
 
Return it. Tell the seller that if he gets shitty you'll let the ATF know that he is selling rifles with altered markings and serial numbers. Let gunbroker know as well.

For the sake of safety, don't keep this around. The Mauser 98 receiver is tough, but God knows what happened to that steel. If you do keep it for some reason, I'd chop it up for parts.

Agreed!! The weld job on the receiver may have weakened it, especially if they first tried to remove the original markings by grinding them off, then welded it back up to size to add the new markings. I wouldn’t trust it. Better to be safe than sorry, the only way this altered rifle could be worse is if it killed or injured someone trying to shoot it.


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Agreed!! The weld job on the receiver may have weakened it, especially if they first tried to remove the original markings by grinding them off, then welded it back up to size to add the new markings. I wouldn’t trust it. Better to be safe than sorry, the only way this altered rifle could be worse is if it killed or injured someone trying to shoot it.


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After seeing that receiver ring photo...wow. Glad everyone stepped up and provided good advice. Sorry you got burned on this Jethro, but also glad you came here and posted this thread. Now you know at least-- there are plenty of folks here who would be happy to help vet future purchases. Hopefully before your money goes out the door.

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I've contacted the seller in writing to request a refund. I'll see if he will do so willingly or if I have to bring up contacting the ATF. Thanks everyone for the great advice. I definitely should have come here first, and will come here first for any future purchases.
 
UPDATE: The Seller Took the Rifle Back

I didn't think this was worth starting a new thread, but wanted to update anyone who was interested that the seller of this thing agreed to take the rifle back and refund me. He was quite hostile at first and it took a month of pestering, gunbroker fraud claim filing, and a screen-shot of an FBI IC3 report that I was about to submit to convince him to take the rifle back.

I found a better gunsmith that had more experience with historical firearms, and he found a few additional problems apart from the things that everyone pointed out here. The most dire of them being that the rear safety lug had been screwed up from the heat when whoever it was turned down the VZ-24 bolt that was masquerading as a k98k bolt. Adding to that, not a single part was matching and most weren't German. It looked like the stock and barrel were German, but nothing else.

Thank you everyone again for your input and your insistence that I get my money back. It definitely could have injured someone.
 
I didn't think this was worth starting a new thread, but wanted to update anyone who was interested that the seller of this thing agreed to take the rifle back and refund me. He was quite hostile at first and it took a month of pestering, gunbroker fraud claim filing, and a screen-shot of an FBI IC3 report that I was about to submit to convince him to take the rifle back.

I found a better gunsmith that had more experience with historical firearms, and he found a few additional problems apart from the things that everyone pointed out here. The most dire of them being that the rear safety lug had been screwed up from the heat when whoever it was turned down the VZ-24 bolt that was masquerading as a k98k bolt. Adding to that, not a single part was matching and most weren't German. It looked like the stock and barrel were German, but nothing else.

Thank you everyone again for your input and your insistence that I get my money back. It definitely could have injured someone.

Good to hear. If your real name is Jethro that’s awesome and your parents are awesome too.


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Sorry it had to take such extreme or hostile measures but I'm glad to hear you got rid of that turd and got your money back. You'll find a nice rifle soon enough if your keep your eyes open here.
 
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