New Nominees for the Rg34 Hall of Shame

[pwcosol]

On this forum a member posted a link to the website for "A.A.S." Thought I would take a look and saw a few photos which insulted my sensibilities, so decided to share them with the membership. What I want to know is where these HKWs are coming from? The manufacture looks pretty good from what I can see (almost too good)... having that long, rolled neck and crisply squared-off patch loop at the front. They have a closer resemblance to either HAWIG or MUNDLOS made HKWs c.a. 1941-1942 than others. I referenced examples on Antoni's Rg34 Blogspot, but did not see any HKWs (but maybe a "ayw 41") which were close to a match with those below. Undoubtedly all were originally unattributed. BTW, #4 is WaA 815 & #8 WaA 77. Thoughts?

 

[Muncher 1953]

these are the style of tool that I (noob that I am) would generally think were earlier wartime made. Set aside the markings, the shape & manner in which the tool is formed on the loop end speak to the task to be performed, something you don’t get from the later ‘plain hole’ hkws. the latter look like cheap knock-offs.

 

[Frysk]

The CNX kit from second last pic, came without the spoon.
Kit looked better in pictures but it’s a nice placeholder.
CNX no waA.

Some other rg34 present on the site at the time i bought it but nothing interesting.

 

[mrfarb]

My opinion, Portuguese cleaning tools. Some Portuguese kits were early pre war G.Appel unmarked tools in those kits, some postwar made. Fake markings added for profit.

 

[pwcosol]

When on the website, thought the seller was only using the tins as a backdrop for offering the HKWs. Spoke to another collector whom has been aware of this guy for many years. He cranks out all kinds of reproduction items. When he sees some component, etc. sell for good money and thinks there is a market for it, he is relatively quick to come up with a reproduction of same. Am going to contact this guy and attempt to get the story.
Have attached four pics of the "classic" Portuguese made HKW. Note the pin, flange below the neck (similar to a larger flange noted on "cnx" HKWs before changing to the late, flat-stamping) and rounded "V" shape to the inside of the patch porthole with subtle corners to the front, notched rib. The rib is bowed outwards a bit as well:

 

[mrfarb]

Classic, but not the only type seen. If I had to guess the Portuguese made new HKW like they did oilers, also some Hawig kits show up as Portuguese. It wouldn’t be hard to cull some original tools from a large batch. I’ll find some auctions with this type of tool in the next few weeks, I see them often enough.

G. Appel 1937 Original WW2 German Cleaning Kit Complete Kit In Great Shape | eBay

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The above kit has “probably” GAppel w/date marked tool from the 30’s. The Portuguese kits were 37-38 for the most part, so original tools like this were mostly unmarked. My feeling is the type you show is a home grown Portuguese replacement.

Am I wrong thinking these look like early GAppel HKW? Maybe I’m not seeing what you see.

 

[pwcosol]

Agreed...there are at least two (if not three) Portuguese HKW variations. I think the earlier tool is less-wide and just has a overall thinner appearance. There are also the overhauled, original tools to be considered as well.
Unfortunately, neither the tools on the AAS website or Ebay listing show the underside of the HKW(s). Although the original purchase of Rg34s from Germany appears to be G APPEL, I recall in the 1980s when I first encountered these, it was not uncommon to find them with HAWIG and even MUNDLOS components slathered in grease as well. Perhaps APPEL was not the only supplier. Seems kits imported in recent years have a majority of components (if not all) of either Portuguese manufacture or refurbished originals. Guessing here, but if the M1937 Portuguese arms contract was being fulfilled from that time forward, the Rg34s would likely be from 1936 at the earliest to around 1938 and the HKWs we would be looking at.

 

[Frysk]

Would it be possible that the Portugese contract was never completed, with the kits intended for export pressed into german service? Maybe that could for some part explain the mixing up maker marked parts with Portugese kits and vice versa.

 

[mrfarb]

It’s possible. The K98k contracts for Portugal are M937a (1937) and M941 (1941). Most kits are unmarked or 1937 and 1938 Appel, with Hawig also mixed in (possibly Mundlos as pwscol suggest). I’ve even found Waffenamt accepted kits in Portuguese stocks from importers in the 90’s. Also many may not realize some of the minty 64 and early CNX kits seem to have been actually supplied with the second contract from 1941 - some of them imported to Canada and made their way around the states.

 

[pwcosol]

... I’ve even found Waffenamt accepted kits in Portuguese stocks from importers in the 90’s. Also many may not realize some of the minty 64 and early CNX kits seem to have been actually supplied with the second contract from 1941 - some of them imported to Canada and made their way around the states.

I had assumed there were no Rg34s supplied with the M1941 contract because of the onset of WW2... and one of the reasons why Portugal took to making their own. However, if only a small number were supplied it would have lent impetus to them taking on Rg34 manufacture. Regarding the "64" & "cnx" kits as particularly nice examples I, too, have encountered a number of these as well. I do recall a German collector/dealer from Phoenix (Dieter Bueschgen) whom I had known for years, turning up at a Arizona show, with a shoe box of about a dozen Rg34s in the early 2000s. I asked him where he got such nice kits. He said a friend in Germany sent them to him and stated they had been surplussed from a German police facility (likely via the auspices of the German Police Presidium, whom controlled much of this stuff stored since WW2). Of the kits, most were either "64" or "cnx" marked. In addition, "Paragon Surplus" (which I believe evolved into IMA) had offered Rg34s for $24.95 in their Shotgun News advertisement. In December, 1994, I bought five kits and all were in excellent condition. I recall specifically asking not to send me a bunch of "cnx" Rg34s. What I got were nice kits, but all the RGKs had been exchanged for newly made ones. They had brass swivel links with domed pins retaining the patch loops, alloy beads and were about three inches longer than WW2 issue. In retrospect, from what was posted by "mrfarb" above, and the time frame, am beginning to suspect these kits which came from Paragon might well be from the same source as he mentions. Since Portugal is the only nation which utilized the Rg34 and made a later effort to swap out or make new RGKs with a brass swivel link, this cannot be just a coincidence. I ended up keeping a mint "ab41" HKW from one of the kits, replaced it with another and offed the lot at a show for $140., which was nine bucks more than the $131./delivered charge for the five from Paragon...

A few more thoughts... do not think I have seen more than one other Rg34 like those sold by Paragon since that time (although their adverts mentioning the kits ran for a couple years). My guess is, because the kits were both in nice condition and complete, collectors ultimately exchanged those replacement RGKs for original ones, thus making those kits unidentifiable today as coming from Paragon. Lastly, since the German Police Presidium was disposing of stored, wartime material from at least the 1970s, Portugal could have purchased any of this in quantity and might well have acquired a large lot of Rg34s from them... just replacing the RGKs with the preferred pattern they had already made.

 

[pwcosol]

Turd Alert:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/127031109581?

 

[pwcosol]

Although not a Rg34 component per se, the item description is of such a ludicrous nature, it cannot be ignored and thus worthy of entry into the Rg34 H.O.S.:

Offered from Ebay seller:

Snipers Perch​

99% positive feedback•3.2K items sold​

Original WWII-era German cleaning tool – not a reproduction
Loop-end eyelet tool used to pull patches through bore or attach to cleaning cords
Often issued with Mauser K98, possibly also used in early Luger cleaning kits
Rare type – much less common than flat cross-shaped Luger tools
Measures approximately (insert exact length in inches and cm)
Shows honest age, patina, and tool marks consistent with wartime use
Found wrapped in original oiled paper, included with sale
Perfect for collectors of original German field gear or display with rifle kits
Guaranteed original WWII bring back, not postwar surplus

US $120.00
or Best Offer