Nice all matching Oberndorf 1916 Gewehr 98

[artyldr01]

Good evening,

I am looking at a nice 1916 Oberndorf Gewehr 98 SN: 5672k, all matching as near as I can tell. Butt plate, stock, bolt parts, trigger housing and screws, bands, follower, magazine plate etc. The finish is thin with a two-tone appearance between the receiver and the barrel, but the markings are clear. There are numbers crudely carved in the side of the stock (I think recent owner's work). All in all, a very nice rifle. They are asking $699. I'm thinking that is a fair but not fantastic deal. Any thoughts?

 

[artyldr01]

A few more.

 

[artyldr01]

Last few. Other than the numbers in the stock, I think it is a nice looking weapon. I have a byf 43 that this would be a nice companion. Any observations or comments are appreciated!


Happy New Year!

 

[Loewe]

$699 is a good deal, the numbers etched in the side are a distraction though... not sure what that number could be, looks like the same number etched twice 34 -1257? Either way, it sure doesn't help; I assume this is above the unit disk, looks like the rear sling boss is off to the right and the disk below, so the cypher and acceptance are unmolested? The crossbolt/recoil lug is reversed, but a small matter.

Anyway, I would say go for it at that price, assuming no other issues, a nice fully matching and original MO/16 is not a bad find, especially with a walnut stock (walnut across the board is common through most of 1916 for all makers, but lasted longer at MO/DWM and some of the arsenals, probably because they had a large inventory of walnut blanks on hand and hadn't exhausted them until late 1916)

If you get the rifle try and do a right receiver shot (acceptance) and the RS buttstock cypher and acceptance.

 

[artyldr01]

I can't believe I didn't get a picture of the stock right side. The markings were intact. I will get a photo when I go back. The numbers are carved to the right and slightly above the disk on the right side. I'm trying g to think what type of number would fit that pattern...service number? Some sort of inventory number? No idea.

 

[Loewe]

Nothing comes to mind for me either, - unless he was out of paper and jotting down Colombian M1912-34's, which is a little improbable...

A several hundred dollar lapse of judgement, the rifle looks pretty good and if no other issues probably worth over $1000 otherwise. Never thought i would say that, I remember the first $1000 G98 sale, a WOK, but it was really nice. Now $1k is pretty typical, or close to it, for almost any "Imperial" no-problem G98, even the more common 1917 dated examples.

I guess it is no surprise though considering what the US Congress, US Treasury and the Federal Reserve are doing to the dollar. They keep it up and we will be hauling around dollars in wheel barrels to buy a loaf of bread, just like the Germans in 1923.

 

[artyldr01]

I didn't even think to check but what would a duffle cut do to that estimate?

 

[Loewe]

It depends on the collector, but "most" experienced collectors do not consider a DC a significant issue. Unless it is done poorly or in an unfortunate location. Of course some consider any "problem" a good excuse for a discount. Just depends, but the graffiti is a much more serious problem, but not a deal killer imo.

 

[artyldr01]

Thanks Loewe. I agree the duffle cut is part of the history and I didn't notice any loseness or other indicators that suggested there was one. It is definitely not import marked. The graffiti is bothersome but as you say, they don't grow on trees.

I was just looking at the numbers again...any chance it was a phone number back from back prior to the 7-digit requirement?

 

[artyldr01]

Here are some, admitedly crappy, pics of the stock markings, buttplate. My battery was dying so the quality sucks. I went ahead and secured it on layaway but there was a 1918 Erfurt Gew98a, mostly matching but the stock, a few smaller pieces were mismatched. Not import marked. It was very pretty but I thought an all matching, slightly defaced Gewehr 98 in a gorgeous stock was a better choice than a mismatched 98a. I suspect it was a theater rebuilt rifle so I may still go get it too but having to chose I chose the matching.

Again, I apologize for the admitedly crappy pics.

 

[Warrior1354]

Thats not a bad looking Gew98 and that price isn't bad either for it being all matching as you say. Always thought 1916 Gewehr pieces were very interesting right in the middle years of the first world war. All you need now is a nice bayonet go with it one day either butcher blade type or the more rarer saw tooth type.

 

[artyldr01]

They do have a sawbuck for $325...I struggle at the thought of paying half the price of the rifle for the bayonet. I have the same problem with my M1903, the M1905 bayonet is expensive too. This is ehy I love the thrill of the hunt stumbling on good deals.

 

[Loewe]

Maybe when you get it you can get better shots of these markings? Clear ones of the stock acceptance and one of the right receiver acceptance?

A sawback bayonet is probably worth $325, probably more if it is problem free. They can sell for more than rifles, the Sg98 a couple thousand for the right rig, Sg98/05 less but they too can pull strong prices if it has all the bells and whistles. The unit marking is everything on these, but maker-date is critical too, but I would say that if the bayonet is original and no problems, it is almost certainly worth $300 or more and you can get you money back out of them easier than rifles. At least in my experience, - bayonets are easy to sell, but the key is original and problem free. Problems really hurt value on bayonets, - and ability to move them.

I suppose you mean a Kar.98a Erfurt/18? They didn't make the G98 in 1918, at least so far as is known. Reason I ask, to be specific, oldtimers use to use that designation to differentiate between upgraded G98's, but as Erfurt is not believed to have made the G98 in 1918, I am pretty sure you mean K98a, - but just incase you found a G98, upgraded or not, I would like to hear about it! They did make a minuscule amount of G98's in 1917.

Here are some, admitedly crappy, pics of the stock markings, buttplate. My battery was dying so the quality sucks. I went ahead and secured it on layaway but there was a 1918 Erfurt Gew98a, mostly matching but the stock, a few smaller pieces were mismatched. Not import marked. It was very pretty but I thought an all matching, slightly defaced Gewehr 98 in a gorgeous stock was a better choice than a mismatched 98a. I suspect it was a theater rebuilt rifle so I may still go get it too but having to chose I chose the matching.

Again, I apologize for the admitedly crappy pics.

 

[artyldr01]

I suppose you mean a Kar.98a Erfurt/18? They didn't make the G98 in 1918, at least so far as is known. Reason I ask, to be specific, oldtimers use to use that designation to differentiate between upgraded G98's, but as Erfurt is not believed to have made the G98 in 1918, I am pretty sure you mean K98a, - but just incase you found a G98, upgraded or not, I would like to hear about it! They did make a minuscule amount of G98's in 1917.

Yes, I apologize. It is the Kar.98a Erfurt/18, or is it Kar.98az with the "hook" on the front? It is in a mismatched stock but the hardware (bands, trigger housing etc) match, the bolt is matching. Again, with no import stamp it makes me think this is a field replaced stock perhaps?

Again, my photos SUCK. I thought they were better than this. Here are a few.

 

[artyldr01]

even worse photos...ugh

 

[artyldr01]

last ones.

I will go look closer at the bayonet as well. They do have a G98b or modified (non matching) and a couple Gew88s (haven't looked closely at them).

 

[Loewe]

Just making sure, as you never know about 1918, so many rifles were destroyed, almost anything is possible.

No, whenever someone calls the Kar.98a a Kar.98AZ I know they do not know much about the Modell98 carbine, - the AZ was a trials designation, which we knew even before Storz came along with his book (Mauserbill has been trying to correct this misinformation for decades and sold me on it back in 1999 when i first began collecting Imperial). 1908-1918 the Modell98 carbine was just Kar.98, but when the kar.98b came along they redesignated the kar.98 carbine the Kar.98a. Today anyone that knows anything (collectors) call the Modell98 carbine the kar.98a, though I generally gave up trying to correct people (or save them from buying bad rifles, - most idiots who buy bad rifles don't deserve saving, these days i am on the if "they don't ask, I don't tell" unless i know the guy or someone asks and they have been helpful to my work...). Anyway, you can call the Kar.98a the Kar.98AZ, or anything else, I was only curious what you meant and whether it was something interesting.

Looking at the pictures, - the stock doesn't match?

Yes, I apologize. It is the Kar.98a Erfurt/18, or is it Kar.98az with the "hook" on the front? It is in a mismatched stock but the hardware (bands, trigger housing etc) match, the bolt is matching. Again, with no import stamp it makes me think this is a field replaced stock perhaps?

Again, my photos SUCK. I thought they were better than this. Here are a few.

 

[Loewe]

I would look at the sawback closer, see when it was made and whether it has a unit marking, - also if the scabbard matches (if unit marked). It is probably not special, but if it is, it could be worth a lot more than they are asking.

As to upgraded G98's and G88's, they are rather easy to evaluate, - generally they aren't worth much unless they are fully matching or have some special feature about them. Fully matching (rework or otherwise, - most are reworks of one variety or another, at least upgraded and almost always blued, follower notched) are tough to find, most are bolt mismatches at least, most also have plenty of problems, but if they are exceptionally nice and matching, they are far more rare than most 98k (though rarely as valuable, they have long been and still are the best value in German small arms collecting, - rather elusive and cheap when found - under appreciated to be sure)

That you say non-matching probably means they aren't worth much, but you never know. Even if not worth much, they can have interesting features about them, though just because something is rare, or rarely seen, doesn't mean it is worth anything. VERY few really know the intricacies on interwar small arms production, what things mean, how common they are and that naturally means there are very few specialists that would value a niche feature that is rare and interwar collectors are small in number, which means demand is low outside of P08 and Kar.98b.

last ones.

I will go look closer at the bayonet as well. They do have a G98b or modified (non matching) and a couple Gew88s (haven't looked closely at them).