"P" letter cartouche on grip of 98k wooden stocks...

[Frank B]

I think this would be a great discusion and comment for this mysterious "P" letter cartouche on grip of 98k wooden stocks. So if you have a "P" letter cartouche on the grip of 98k wooden stock, post a pic and what type of rifle it is and year, if it is all matching, and if a armorer rebuild. At this time all we know is it is on only laminated stocks.

 

[Loewe]

This is a good idea though I think it would need to be expanded if you want to form a database that might lead to answers.

Specifically, removal of the B/R and buttplate and examination of the wood (raw areas) for codes or any markings that may lead to a company. I will see if I can create a folder for this subject and work up some trends from my files.

 

[hrvatski]

I have what I think is a "P" armorer stock. P marked with no numbers in the barrel channel or on the butt . Has two very faint E/655's on the keel. Flat butt plate and drilled for a 12.5 inch cleaning rod. It has a Imperial recoil lug. The bayo lug is also Imperial and serial numbered 13.

Ski

 

[Loewe]

Ski, Have you ever had the buttplate off or examined the barrel channel for any markings?

 

[hrvatski]

Butt end is blank and the barrel channel has no numbers or markings that I can see. The wood in the channel is almost white in color.

Ski

 

[Loewe]

Thanks, that is how many seem to be and why I didn't think it was worth pursuing this project. I have seen some markings that appear to be codes under the buttplate or inside the channel, one a plywood manufacturer, though it seems to be unique and in "general" unique often means fraudulent.

 

[Frank B]

Thanks, that is how many seem to be and why I didn't think it was worth pursuing this project. I have seen some markings that appear to be codes under the buttplate or inside the channel, one a plywood manufacturer, though it seems to be unique and in "general" unique often means fraudulent.

So, they are all flat butt plates? and maybe not numbered? So possibly armorer replacement stocks?

 

[mrfarb]

Early laminate stocks have the "P" markings on production guns as well. We examined a lot of period documents when we did volume 1 of the Karabiner 98k book and there was never any evidence found as to the meaning of the P marking.

 

[Winchester Cowboy]

To p or not to p. Shakespeare!

Here's a "p" on mine, 1939 237, Vet bring back, all matching:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?700-237-k98-1939&highlight=1939+237

 

[Loewe]

I was speaking in general regarding all laminate stocks. In Richs case this has a "P" and that would be the laminate blank provider in my scenario, however some have neither and some have what appear to be codes or possible codes. The problem is far too few have been examined and I doubt there is enough of an appetite to get people to disassemble their rifles.

I will still try to gather what I can but I have several projects under way.

So, they are all flat butt plates? and maybe not numbered? So possibly armorer replacement stocks?

 

[bruce98k]

Time frame

Remember the 'P' was phased out in 1941 but there could have been some carryover into 1942 with older inventory being used up.
This is obviously based on observed examples as Mike stated we have found no period evidence of the meaning or application of the stamp.

 

[mauser99]

I thought it was pretty straight up knowledge that it had something to do with the fact it was a laminated stock ? As walnut stocks are not found with the P. Germany seemed to like to stamp non standard wood stocks with an I.D.

 

[Loewe]

Yes and the Germans usually have a purpose for these markings... what is the purpose or meaning of the "p"?

As discussed in this thread and the other that started this discussion, we know it is something to do with laminate stocks and the expediency, but is the "P" a special supplier that maybe developed the first blanks (you see this sort of thing on other things, Grossfuss's logo on early MG42 things, Mike showed me an early kick plate from a G33/40 with their logo, etc..), or some abbreviated German word or some other purpose. It isn't a code, "P" as a code represent firms quite out of line with wood working or manufacture...

Anyway, the only interest I have here is to see if there are any stocks that have ordnance codes or trademarks, or some identifier that can be linked to a specific wood provider, to see if the rifle makers received deliveries for laminate stocks. If none exist or if Jon Speed knows that Mauser at least made their own early on (and they might have as they did experiment in WWI with stock expedients) then this would be progress as we could eliminate a "blank provider" as a possible answer for the "P" and focus on other possibilities which have been suggested in the past.

I thought it was pretty straight up knowledge that it had something to do with the fact it was a laminated stock ? As walnut stocks are not found with the P. Germany seemed to like to stamp non standard wood stocks with an I.D.

 

[WaA623]

Would this help at all??1938-42L:

 

[Loewe]

You know, I actually think it does, - we need more of this type of examples... especially the markings under the buttplate like this "Bo", - obviously it isn't Böhler, but it might be a abbreviation of a name of a company.

With enough examples we might be able to form a pattern of sorts?

 

[type96]

This is a 1940 AX, all matching but the cleaning rod. I also have a 1939 243 that is marked under the butt plate. I will post that later.

 

[WaA623]

I also have an all matching ax 40 in the "k" block with the "p" but did bot post as I have no pictures of the stock channel or under buttplate.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks, can you type out that exact code, is it a Bu or Bo? Kind of looks Bu? Is there anything under that buttplate, good pictures but it looks blank but I just want to be sure?

Assuming this is related to a blank provider (raw laminate blank) and it has similarities to how barrels are done, then the original blanks markings would be obliterated during the finishing process and re-applied by the finisher. So variations should exist by finisher (rifle maker). This is why it is important to see all the raw areas of a stock, they could have used slightly different codes, abbreviations and placements.

This is a 1940 AX, all matching but the cleaning rod. I also have a 1939 243 that is marked under the butt plate. I will post that later.

 

[type96]

Loewe, it looks like - R on it's side - 347 s.n. - looks like BU - 4 space 28 space 40, - P on it's side. The 4 28 40 could be a date? April 28, 1940. Nothing under the butt plate nor other marks in the barrel channel.

 

[John Lawson]

AR 41 with two P stamps

Here are some pictures of AR 41 # 6258 f block with P on exterior stock at wrist and also P on inside stock channel next to serial number and what looks like a triangle marking. Flat butt plate with nice markings underneath.
Waffenmesiter, this is one I bought from you a few years back at Allentown.