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Post-War Hungarian use K98k

Pat

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I found this one after finding a Hungarian 43M with the same type and style of markings. To summarize, the Hungarians (and especially their Soviet occupiers) had access to a huge amount of small arms following the Siege of Budapest. At some point, the Hungarians were entrusted with bolt action rifles of various types, but especially K98k's and 43M's. It appears that the K98k's were scrubbed of German markings and switched over to an underslung sling arrangement, as opposed to the typical left side carry of K98k's. This included the attachment of a sling loop on the bottom of K98k rear barrel bands. The rifles appear to have been cobbled together from parts of donor rifles, and could even mix K98k with 43M parts. From surviving period photos, it appears that rifles like these were used in Hungary prior to the use of Soviet small arms.

A number of markings were added to the receivers and stocks, none of which are seen on original WWII-era rifles of either type. These included a small stamp on the receiver of an upper case R in a rounded triangle, an added number across the bottom third of butt plates preceded by another upper case R, and a circle stamp on the left side of butt stocks of yet another R inside a circle, with a three pronged device above the R. It's not known exactly what the significance is of the R, but an association with the post-war Rendörség (Hungarian Police) is entirely possible.

This particular K98k has a Romanian Vz.24 bolt, which is not surprising considering the types of troops (combat and second/third line) trapped inside Budapest during the siege, and the Soviet use of Romanian troops in the invasion of Hungary. The top and side rail of the receiver have been scrubbed, except for a 1944 date at the lower portion of the receiver. These rifles seem to have occupied a temporary, place holding role prior to the forced adoption of more modern Soviet weapons. I've not seen any of these with import markings either, suggesting a pre-1968 importation into the USA. These crop up from time to time, but are easy to miss and even easier to dismiss as just another scrubbed, cobbled K98k. The addition of the bottom loop on the rear barrel band and the stock keel are dead giveaways, confirmed by the added R markings.
 
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Here’s a 43M of the same style from an expired Gunbroker auction awhile back-
 

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Two period photos for you - one shows border guards and a smuggler they’ve apprehended. Note the underslung K98k’s.

The woman in this photo has a K98k done up the same way. Note the added sling loop on the bottom of the rear band and the added lower loop at the stock keel. The stock sling slot cut out is still present. This is from the 1956 Budapest Uprising.
 

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Great stuff! These Hungarian post war k98k rifles seem to often be confused with Romanian or even turkish reworks. I wonder how many exist in the states, and how much variation there is amongst them. Ive only seen a handful that I know of. Thanks for taking the time to put this information and photos together! This thread could be a good place for people to post other examples they've come across.
 
Great stuff! These Hungarian post war k98k rifles seem to often be confused with Romanian or even turkish reworks. I wonder how many exist in the states, and how much variation there is amongst them. Ive only seen a handful that I know of. Thanks for taking the time to put this information and photos together! This thread could be a good place for people to post other examples they've come across.
Agree. Some of the Turkish reworks did sometimes alter the upper band for bottom sling use, sometimes by hammering and reshaping so the sling bar is now located at the bottom. Hungarians seemed to use the welded bar on the bottom of the upper band.
 
Stan, it looks like I just accidentally deleted part of your post, my apologies.
To answer your question, we still don't have enough information to determine that the added number on the butt plates (R-XXXXX) have a nexus to the Police. That's a theory that I've discussed with another collector of Hungarian stuff, and he confirmed what we've been seeing so far - that printed records of anything like that are either lost or were destroyed. WWII era records are in an even worse state due to Allied bombing of Budapest and the devastation of the city in the siege in 1944-45, especially the Buda side of the river. I wouldn't be surprised if records for the small arms factories in Budapest actually turn up in Austria or Germany instead.
 
Some additional pics of post war Hungarian police with their K98k. Photos date 1947 and 1951. You can clearly see the front band modification.
 

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Nice photos, thanks for sharing!
If you enlarge the first photo showing the left side view of the rifle being inspected, you can see a circular device in the butt stock.
 
Very interesting to know the Austrian Police was not the only post war unit that wanted to carry the K98k in Stutzen fashion. Must had been a kind of KuK thing ;).
 
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Stan, it looks like I just accidentally deleted part of your post, my apologies.
To answer your question, we still don't have enough information to determine that the added number on the butt plates (R-XXXXX) have a nexus to the Police. That's a theory that I've discussed with another collector of Hungarian stuff, and he confirmed what we've been seeing so far - that printed records of anything like that are either lost or were destroyed. WWII era records are in an even worse state due to Allied bombing of Budapest and the devastation of the city in the siege in 1944-45, especially the Buda side of the river. I wouldn't be surprised if records for the small arms factories in Budapest actually turn up in Austria or Germany instead.
My fault Pat. I missed the part in your OP regarding the uncertainty of the "R" on the BP number. That pretty much negated the need for my question so I deleted it myself.
 
Great stuff Pat! I was definitely thrown for a loop on the slings in this arrangement and didn’t know what to attribute them too. They must have imported a good number of these and destroyed them somehow as I have seen a ton of these barrel bands in parts boxes, but extremely limited complete rifles. Also I haven’t forgotten you, life has just been extremely hectic, I’ll dig through my notes when I can.
 
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Great stuff Pat! I was definitely thrown for a loop on the slings in this arrangement and didn’t know what to attribute them too. They must have imported a good number of these and destroyed them somehow as I have seen a ton of these barrel bands in parts boxes, but extremely limited complete rifles. Also I haven’t forgotten you, life has just been extremely hectic, I’ll dig through my notes when I can.
I wonder if people attributed them to bubba and took them off and replaced them with "normal" bands to make them more "correct". But you are right, ive seen alot of these bands by themselves in parts boxes over the years. At one time I think I had several laying around myself, hell probably still do haha.
 
I know this thread is old, but I just picked up a k98k that is very similar to the above pictures. It's a DUV 41, it has the same sling loops, and marking on the stock. Any more info would be great. I think I did ok on price as I got it for 450 today.
 

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I know this thread is old, but I just picked up a k98k that is very similar to the above pictures. It's a DUV 41, it has the same sling loops, and marking on the stock. Any more info would be great. I think I did ok on price as I got it for 450 today.
I few thoughts. IMHO, $450 is cheap in today's market for just about anything WW2 German. 2nd thought is your example sports the 'best' type of peened Swazi, where they used a single appropriately sized punch to just whack that leaving the rest of the proof intact. Sometimes you can't even tell until you look close.
 
I few thoughts. IMHO, $450 is cheap in today's market for just about anything WW2 German. 2nd thought is your example sports the 'best' type of peened Swazi, where they used a single appropriately sized punch to just whack that leaving the rest of the proof intact. Sometimes you can't even tell until you look close.
Agree! Some firing proofs got a light strike at the factory and look almost like they were peened. That MIGHT be the case with his, but can't tell for certain looking at his photo..
 

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