Questionable Camos

[M45]

Russ Hamilton Steel Helmet Collection: The collection of the pioneering steel helmet collector Russ Hamilton, who died 20 April 2021 will be displayed in this section. The helmets will be photographed and added gradually. Certain helmets will be offered for sale and those will be listed in the For Sale section. Unavailable helmets will be displayed in the Russ Hamilton Steel Helmet SOLD section for the enjoyment of the collecting community.

Virtual Grenadier

Heer M35 double decal tricolor spray camouflaged helmet, incredibly attractive example with intact decals, the base apple green paint was over sprayed in a base tan color to which dark green and red brown colors were added, the outline of the decals is clearly visible and, upon close inspection, the contours of the Heer eagle and national color shield may be discerned, a good deal of paint remains to pins and vents, there is wear to shell's lower edges as well as some scratches and gouges to the paint, internally there is a dome stamp with 1937 date, shell is embossed Q60 and the lot number is 148, with unreinforced aluminum liner bands, pins have not been disturbed and all washers are in place, the leather liner with its string is stamped size 53, the chinstrap is marked to a Berlin manufacturer and dated 1937, the buckle end has two staples holding it together, a separate undamaged replacement buckle is included, great looking example, USD $4500 HOLD

 

[Joseph Burke]

Wow! That REX39 replica is very well done. Yes, a good price too.

 

[Joseph Burke]

Russ Hamilton Steel Helmet Collection: The collection of the pioneering steel helmet collector Russ Hamilton, who died 20 April 2021 will be displayed in this section. The helmets will be photographed and added gradually. Certain helmets will be offered for sale and those will be listed in the For Sale section. Unavailable helmets will be displayed in the Russ Hamilton Steel Helmet SOLD section for the enjoyment of the collecting community.

Virtual Grenadier

Heer M35 double decal tricolor spray camouflaged helmet, incredibly attractive example with intact decals, the base apple green paint was over sprayed in a base tan color to which dark green and red brown colors were added, the outline of the decals is clearly visible and, upon close inspection, the contours of the Heer eagle and national color shield may be discerned, a good deal of paint remains to pins and vents, there is wear to shell's lower edges as well as some scratches and gouges to the paint, internally there is a dome stamp with 1937 date, shell is embossed Q60 and the lot number is 148, with unreinforced aluminum liner bands, pins have not been disturbed and all washers are in place, the leather liner with its string is stamped size 53, the chinstrap is marked to a Berlin manufacturer and dated 1937, the buckle end has two staples holding it together, a separate undamaged replacement buckle is included, great looking example, USD $4500 HOLD

Although having several, I'm still fairly new to camos and this is not a "one looker" to me. I'm not saying it's bad but I can only buy a camo if I'm fully convinced it's legit and this one just isn't doing it for me. I don't like the edge wear at all nor the top surface. Of course it could have seen very little actual use as it sure doesn't have that honest worn look. It's might be 100% legit but if I owned it I would never be 100% sure.

 

[M45]

Good eyes on that Russ Hamilton (RIP) helmet. Of all of the questionable camos I've seen, this one is nearly perfect as far as the finish itself is concerned.

The rim wear is indeed suspicious. Notice how bright it is when compared to the rest of the aged, dulled. oxidized helmet. If this wear had occurred 77+ years ago, the rim would have been exposed to the same dulling effects as the rest of the helmet. But it is much brighter. I have done a bit of experimentation painting my own camos on bare shells and know that camo paint is often laid down in layers. Maybe a brighter flat tan/yellow coat first, and then other colors, then aging and then some distress (dings). During the distress phase, rims are often gone over taking the outer layers down to the brighter base coat. Like when polishing your vehicle, care must be taken not to "burn" the high points.

As you mentioned, the top surface has no appreciable wear as would be expected on a combat helmet being set down on its crown repeately during usage. This helmet has a well-distributed minor wear (red flag)

Camo helmets being often front line helmets seeing some of the heaviest combat, the damaged areas of the camo should reveal factory paint underneath. Also, exposed metal should have a nice smooth dark rust patina. This camo is in such fantastic shape that we really do not see any of that.

Those characteristics seen on known originals are some of the more difficult to replicate, thus they are largely avoided on questionable camos. So we see crowns in fantasitc condition, camo painters avoiding crowns and rims altoghter, essentially no factory paint visible anywhere, essentially no dark rust patina anywhere.

This one has that used but not abused look, just the way we like to see them - well known dealer.

 

[M45]

From the Russ Hamilton collection.

Heer M42 single decal tan and green geometric camouflaged helmet, factory field grey finish and Heer decal were over painted externally by hand in an overall tan color with the green geometric color being carefully applied subsequently, the resulting proportion of green to tan is about 60% to 40%, there are chips to the paint, especially on the helmet's right side and also at the top, where the paint is missing the base paint or dark brown steel is seen, as a group the pins have about 60% of their paint, overall paint coverage is about 85%, shell stamp is ET66, lot number 1531, with steel liner bands, pins are complete with washers, heavy dust and spider webs, liner is complete and has the remnant of its original drawstring, faint initials are applied in ink, the full length chinstrap has a three letter maker code, unique, USD $5000 SOLD

 

[Hambone]

Wow. $5k? Looks like the paint is still drying.

 

[M45]

It's nice to have a peek at what the big boys are collecting and selling. They buyers must be deep pocket collectors/investors who really have no concept of what original camos look like. Oh well.... they can still be used as movie props.

 

[M45]

A recent "DAK" helmet posted on WAF.

Well liked universally. No mention that I recall of WHERE it came from. No vet information. It seems like very few members ask WHERE these helmets are coming from.
Congered VET association usually looks so bogus that they don't even attempt it anymore. The subject is simply ignored.

Original SD DAK helmets have rarely been seen in recent decades. So this one should have good traceable lines (detailed VET info). But NOTHING.

Underneath the "DAK" paint we have an unremarkable SD Heer helmet with badly damaged decal (a relatively low dollar helmet - $600 ?) But with the CAMO we have a helmet potentially worth what 3-5 K ?

Most of the originals have long ago found permanent homes, and if they do change hands, it is usually with a phone call.

To have one pop up out of nowhere is usually too good to be true.

 

[Eurofighter]

WWII M40 ET66 Afrika Korps DAK Luftwaffe Camouflage Helmet​

Item H653: Everyone wants an authentic DAK Afrika Korps helmet. Well, here it is. More to come…


Price: $4500

WWII German Helmets - Original WW2 Helmets - German War Helmet

100% original WW II German Helmets & Militaria - WWII German Helmets, German Army Helmets, Luftwaffe Helmets, Waffen SS Helmets, German Helmet Camo, WW2

germanwarhelmet.com

Happy Holiday's everyone !

Here we have a DAK camo for sale on the GermanWarHelmet dealer website. Notice that it has a nice large, bright painted name.

Some concerns of this one:

-Where did it come from ? If this has been hiding out for decades, it should have come from a vet. Where is the authentic vet provenance ?

-The helmet underneath the camo paint is a well-worn M40 SD Luft, a relatively low-dollar helmet. (Notice decal wear and liner wear)

-A nice large bright painted name that we all like to see.

-Camo painter apparently avoided the outside rim when applying camo. This is an issue because it can be difficult for postwar artists to apply believable age and wear to the outside rim.

-Everyone wants an authentic one, as the title says. DAK German helmets are extremely desiriable in the collecting world.

I didn't say the F-word, I said the camo is questionable. Are we paying more for the painted name, or for the camo or both ? Certainly without the camo or name we would have an unremarkable well-worn SD Luft M40; price: maybe $500 ?

So the camo increased this helmet's value by $4000 ?

And don't forget the all-important period photo.

I have been awol from here for a few years - missed your 'against the flow' input...I am pleased that you are back posting.

 

[M45]

On the whole i agree with you. What I have a problem with is your broad sweeping rule that EVERY camo MUST show heavy use. Please explain why the below camo (mine) is fake (though i think the vast majority of collectors would agree that it is a one-look original). It shows no heavy use, it also has chipped top layer paint which you routinely point out as signs of fakery and "tool marks". And please don't bring up exceptions like the fact that ts from ww1 not ww2, because your stance on camos and wear leaves no room for exceptions.

And please don't bring up exceptions like the fact that ts from ww1 not ww2


Actually, you hit the nail on the head. Most WW1 German camos are distinctly different from WW2 German camos in the methods of their creation.

WW2 German camos were created in the field by individual soldiers or at the unit level. As such, we have a vast variety of styles and types.

WW1 German camos, in contrast, are overwhelmingly of the type you posted, a geometric patch pattern using flat brown, flat yellow, and flat green separated by about a 1/2" wide flat black border. Of WW! German camos, these are extremely common and extremely consistent in their style. This type of consistency is NOT achieved in the field by individual soldiers.

This consistency IS achieved by the same groups of people painting them, such as depot personnel following standard instructions. If depot personnel followed an instruction sheet using the same colors of paint, it becomes clear how this consistency could be achieved.

It also becomes clear why some of these WW1 German camos are found in unissued condition today (or nearly so), since equipment depots were overrun by allied forces who took this new equipment home as war booty.

 

[M45]

https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/wehrmacht-uniforms-and-equipment/john-burnett-helmet-forum/13104953-1222-m40-ww1-type-camo

A WW-1 style camo on a WW-2 helmet. Actually, unheard of, IMO. No period photos, nothing in print, no known collectors ever having seen one through the decades (this one excepted).


The theories range from it being painted by a WW-1 vet who was now in WW-2 (would be a bit old for a front line combat soldier - camo),
or that it was painted by a younger soldier who copied the camo on his father's WW-1 helmet.

I suppose a third theory is that it was copied alright, but in recent times.

Parallel scratches on this one (red flag) in addition to substantial rust pitting, especially on the airvents. This indicates it was set outside in the elements for some time. Now who in their right mind would set a beautiful camo like this outside to rust away ? Answer: a helmet restorer who wanted to age his artwork.

Of course, no apparent unquestioned vet provenance. This thing just appeared one day.

 

[M45]

I have been awol from here for a few years - missed your 'against the flow' input...I am pleased that you are back posting.

Glad to have you back. I'm just p!ss'n against the wind as usual !

 

[heavy_mech]

Actually, unheard of, IMO. No period photos, nothing in print, no known collectors ever having seen one through the decades (this one excepted).

Of course, no apparent unquestioned vet provenance. This thing just appeared one day.

This of course is my biggest problem with any of the TR stuff. IF it was real, IMHO SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE would have seen one in the past 80 years. And of course the sellers of this shite just want you to believe and trust them. Like the barn full of Nazi a$$ rags and Christmas ornaments in Czechoslovakia. Sure dude, I believe you. Here's my money.

 

[M45]

Found another WW! style camo on a WW!! shell. This is on a late war no-decal helmet.

 

[M45]

An apparent Luftwaffe field division camo using green as the base, with red-brown splotches. Correct color scheme on a correct Luft shell, but that's about where the 'correctness' ends IMO.

Damaged areas appear to have been manufactured or purposefully created. Much pristine material throughout. Paint burned on high points (re: airvents). A nice replica museum piece or for use as a move prop, but has no place on a serious collector's shelf.

 

[M45]

A LUX tiger stripe camo, aka 'exotic freshie'.

I will revise my previous estimate of 85% of camos are questionable to 99+%.

 

[M45]

This is something you really don't see on questionable camos, dark rust patina, which is formed over time as the helmet is in service. Paint is being knocked off from use while the helmet is being repeatedly handled. Corrosion is slowly forming on the bare metal surface but it is being touched regularly which seems to prevent serious rust pitting. The result is a very smooth, dark patina, essentially a stabilized black rust.

See the beating the white paint has taken on this KM Medic helmet ? This is often how camos appeared at the great western gun show in the 70s-90s; well beat, well worn, often with dark rust patina.

Also notice that the factory parade finish light green is visible under the damaged areas of the white paint.

Compare the wear on this KM medic helmet to the above questionable camos and see the differences.

Original camos and questionable camos have lived two very different lives.

One was created during WWII and saw action and generally heavy use (regular handling), with paint damage and oxidation leading to dark rust patina. Factory paint is usually visible in the damaged areas of the camo.

The other was created in an art studio/garage in recent times attempting to mimic originals, succeeding in certain areas but failing miserably in others. Bare steel will often exhibit rust pitting, the results of bare steel sitting undisturbed (no service handling) in the elements for long periods. Much of the delicate painted texture is often in pristine condition, usually the first thing to wear off during actual war service.

 

[Hambone]

I don't think that type of wear and age can be created, except through several years of use in the field and 70 years.

 

[Imdone]

This is something you really don't see on questionable camos, dark rust patina, which is formed over time as the helmet is in service. Paint is being knocked off from use while the helmet is being repeatedly handled. Corrosion is slowly forming on the bare metal surface but it is being touched regularly which seems to prevent serious rust pitting. The result is a very smooth, dark patina, essentially a stabilized black rust.

See the beating the white paint has taken on this KM Medic helmet ? This is often how camos appeared at the great western gun show in the 70s-90s; well beat, well worn, often with dark rust patina.

Also notice that the factory parade finish light green is visible under the damaged areas of the white paint.

Compare the wear on this KM medic helmet to the above questionable camos and see the differences.

Original camos and questionable camos have lived two very different lives.

One was created during WWII and saw action and generally heavy use (regular handling), with paint damage and oxidation leading to dark rust patina. Factory paint is usually visible in the damaged areas of the camo.

The other was created in an art studio/garage in recent times attempting to mimic originals, succeeding in certain areas but failing miserably in others. Bare steel will often exhibit rust pitting, the results of bare steel sitting undisturbed (no service handling) in the elements for long periods. Much of the delicate painted texture is often in pristine condition, usually the first thing to wear off during actual war service.

Dark rust patina can be recreated by vaseline mixed with a black artists pigment, once the vaseline drys...quick gentle polish & a short spray of matt varnish and there it is, no big deal and certainly not to be relied upon as a door to authenticity!

Also used to reverse small red rust areas....try it some day!

 

[Hambone]

Dark rust patina can be recreated by vaseline mixed with a black artists pigment, once the vaseline drys...quick gentle polish & a short spray of matt varnish and there it is, no big deal and certainly not to be relied upon as a door to authenticity!

Also used to reverse small red rust areas....try it some day!

Yep. But it doesn’t take that much really. I like heavily worn camos because they were used and are far harder to fake, if not in some instances practically impossible if you look at them close under magnification and know what you’re looking at and for.

As an hilarious aside view into the malady called waftardation, I remember when their Kamo Gurus started the chant that “thicker is better” concerning kamo paint. This was around the same time that waftards adopted the term, “exotic freshie” in an attempt to legitimize kamo lids that looked like they were put out on barbecue pit lids to dry. Actually, in my experience thicker is faker. But then you could get censored and banned for that.