Questionable Camos
- Thread starter M45
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M45
Well-known member
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Galleries/Helmets.html
Out of this dealer's section of about 31 M35/40/42 Army helmets, I count about 18 camos. That's about 58% or well over half are camos.
I don't remember camos being that common years ago. There just weren't very many back then. When you factor in that camos tend to be held longer by collectors, that should make a dealer's stock of original camos very sparse.
Out of this dealer's section of about 31 M35/40/42 Army helmets, I count about 18 camos. That's about 58% or well over half are camos.
I don't remember camos being that common years ago. There just weren't very many back then. When you factor in that camos tend to be held longer by collectors, that should make a dealer's stock of original camos very sparse.
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Bigdibbs88
"Ach du lieber!"
So by the same logic, if another dealer has a bunch of SD's and ND's and no camos then that means the worldwide population of camos is 0%? Or since my k98 collection is 90% steyr that means they produced 90% of k98s? I think it points out nothing other than what someone collects/"specializes in"/sells....
For all of the wwii items germanmilitaria has/had over the years, they have no eye for helmets. I dont even bother scrolling their helmet section any more. Their camos are horrible.
For all of the wwii items germanmilitaria has/had over the years, they have no eye for helmets. I dont even bother scrolling their helmet section any more. Their camos are horrible.
dagoromagna
Member
That's a possible scenario, yes.
"Possible" like every other scenario, even yours.
I see some confusion here:
- so, real medics are "the ones with the cross that runs completely from side to side and front to back"? No, period pics, like the one you post above tell a different story...
- what is the "the true 'one-lookers' in every regard"? The ones on the books that Member "Niblet" reads without Handling helmets? Or on the sites he surfs? I handled originals and fakes (like the medic Latvian ones) and I bet you Mr.Niblet that HANDLING is of capital importance. That may need a REAL MAN to admit it as you said....strange behaviour...rules change depending on wind...sometimes handling is important sometimes not...
- just to be clear: I don't think sellers are good guys. Collectors are, sometimes, good guys who play the game fairly.
Claiming that only almost-relic camo ones are good and following some rules (like thinking the only original Medic is that M35 KM with sprayed paint with that neat faded FRONTAL cross and worn out dome) is like avoiding any analysis or any mental effort to study and judge.
I think the message this thread is conveying is some kind of guruish attitude that tells a mass of not-thinking Members what to believe in and what not to believe in...
That's sad.
My Best to all.
Happy Collecting (without fun it's only waste of time)
My opinions: those multiple (I think there are at least five of them) "Normandy camos" which were so loved at WAF were always highly suspect to me. We were informed that "in hand" they are "one lookers". I never thought them so from the pics. Here is a reason why: one of them has the Luft. eagle completely and neatly removed. It has not been uncovered and removed, but it was camo painted around and then the eagle was neatly removed. The problem is that this camouflage pattern and colors ("Ambush Pattern") was a later 1943 thing, which would have been close to the decal drop date. I have never personally seen an original "Normandy pattern" (silly term) camo helmet with a painted around decal. The manner of decal removal leads me to believe that perhaps a fake decal was used and painted around. The existence of a reproduction Luft. decal on one of these camos would immediately cause them all to be, at best, highly suspect. That would mean about $10k - $15k worth of helmets exposed as fakes.
Player11
Right Nad
Do yours make more?.
Reaching here, lets make a break and study the mather.M45:
- Not handling a camo is not importance to be an expert on camos.
-You study the pics and reach to a conclussion.
-People who collects camo are not capables to judge a camo and , probably, they are wrong because you know more of camos than everybody
-I read in a thread, that is hard to say if a camo is real or not, but you deal in probabilities and possibilities.
So, how on Hearth can you be an expert camo dealing this way?, where are your years of experience?
Niblet
Left Nad
Handling to me is a "nice" and i am sure it helps,,but is certainly not the end all to be all
if the camo looks fresh with no wear, contrived wear, or tool marks,I dont give a tinkers damn what it looks like or feels like in hand,,its rubbish
I never once said I know more than anybody,,I would never say that
I'm not an expurt in anything,,,I just have figured out this crooked a$$ hobby,,and i can tell you the camos are being fabricated
now as I write this,,and you guys STILL do not understand this ( or dont want to understand it)
It is hard to say a camo is real,,not so hard to tell if its a modern art masterpiece
if the camo looks fresh with no wear, contrived wear, or tool marks,I dont give a tinkers damn what it looks like or feels like in hand,,its rubbish
I never once said I know more than anybody,,I would never say that
I'm not an expurt in anything,,,I just have figured out this crooked a$$ hobby,,and i can tell you the camos are being fabricated
now as I write this,,and you guys STILL do not understand this ( or dont want to understand it)
It is hard to say a camo is real,,not so hard to tell if its a modern art masterpiece
Player11
Right Nad
But how on earth can you speak of something you dont know. For wacthing some pics you can decide if a helmet is good or bad?, i recognise that some camos in Ebay will be easy, but many others need a hand inspection that you arent ready to do for many reasons, not handling many of them, not knowing how the old rust gets old, etc, etc.
You can believe what you want and creat your own opinion, but without handling toy cant be sure 100 %
You guys dont dont understand this or dont want to do it. Do you think you know all
M45
Well-known member
So by the same logic, if another dealer has a bunch of SD's and ND's and no camos then that means the worldwide population of camos is 0%?
Camos were scarce back in the day and probably became more scarce over time as these one of a kind pieces tended to find permanent homes.
Scarce camos finding permanent homes = very few originals circulating in the marketplace. If dealer's sites were true to reality, they should be filled with SDs and NDs with fewer DDs and only occasionally camos, with white painted snow camos and medics only rarely if ever encountered.
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Niblet
Left Nad
well I dont believe you have to handle something to figure it out,,,see my previous post regarding knights crosses and dog poop
you believe you can authenticate something simply by handling it then by all means keep collecting
Player11
Right Nad
Ok, how do you know a Knight Cross is original by wacthing the pics?Fakes are very good!!, i listen to you!!!!!
Niblet
Left Nad
you can easily identify a "rounder" knights cross from some simple visual ques,,you dont need to fondle one
Player11
Right Nad
REALLY???!!!
Fakes are exactly similar unless for two little details.
Iron Crosses, were made from Iron, nowadays making that iron need high and strong machines to bend the iron giving those shapes, the blac iron was exactly, put into the grey border with a machine that made that with a hard knock . today, making it need to be a strong machine or just made the two thing united.
THE ONLY WAY TO SEE IF AN IRON CROS IS ORIGINAL IS WITH A MAGNET PUTTING IT IN THE BLACK SURFACE, BECAUSE TODAY TO MAKE A BLACK IRON CROSS IS VERY EXPENSIVE. The usually arent made of iron and are made both shapes blac and border in one piece, they allways were made by separate
The only other way to see if a Iron Cross is genuine is to put it on its profile and to see the fine line that divided the iron from the grey border.
And you can see it by the pics???!!! hope you wont have bought yet any of those
Maybe im giving too much clues to fakers by your fault
REALLY???!!!
Fakes are exactly similar unless for two little details.
Iron Crosses, were made from Iron, nowadays making that iron need high and strong machines to bend the iron giving those shapes, the blac iron was exactly, put into the grey border with a machine that made that with a hard knock . today, making it need to be a strong machine or just made the two thing united.
THE ONLY WAY TO SEE IF AN IRON CROS IS ORIGINAL IS WITH A MAGNET PUTTING IT IN THE BLACK SURFACE, BECAUSE TODAY TO MAKE A BLACK IRON CROSS IS VERY EXPENSIVE. The usually arent made of iron and are made both shapes blac and border in one piece, they allways were made by separate
The only other way to see if a Iron Cross is genuine is to put it on its profile and to see the fine line that divided the iron from the grey border.
And you can see it by the pics???!!! hope you wont have bought yet any of those
Maybe im giving too much clues to fakers by your fault
Player, with all due respect, try just responding in a matter of fact manner, with simple facts. Your point about EKs having a magnetic core is very good, but then you lose points by the sarcasm and ridicule.
As for the "importance of an in hand evaluation", let me clarify that helmets can be ID'd as fake or bad without it, and certainly camo helmets are regularly "blessed" by those only viewing pictures on the internets. Thus, it is only fair that they too can be doubted or criticized by the same photographs. There are many camo helmets that I would not be interested in buying, simply from the photographs. There are helmets I would buy quickly with simply the photographs (subject to a standard in hand inspection to confirm originality). In this case, the in-hand inspection period is merely insurance, though likely not necessary. Then there are camo helmets I would take a chance on, only with an in hand. I do not believe I have ever bought a camo from photographs and returned it.
