Recently acquired dot 1944 K98k, would like information

[DZelenka]

I acquired a dot 1944 K98k SN 3447 aL block. As you can see from the pictures, it has matching serial numbers on the barrel, bolt, bolt shroud, safety, cocking piece, floor plate, and both barrel bands. It also has the full serial number in the handguard. The stock is stamped 3774, but that is likely a mistake on the part of the factory (maybe I am wrong, but I do have an MP 44 that is stamped znb which is weird until you realize the letters were placed in the stamp in the wrong order. The font is correct for a bnz stamp.) The K98k also has no serial number on the receiver, sight parts, or the trigger. There are no import marks.

I have owned a bunch of German WWII guns but this is the first K98k (or any 8mm bolt gun) so I am asking the experts to comment and let me know what I have.

I also wouldn't mind getting a ballpark value.

Thank you

Dan

 

[DZelenka]

A few more pictures.

 

[Teed]

Love these cz mausers, congrats

 

[Bob in OHIO]

The gun looks right with its numbering… but the wood (and metal) has been coated with shellac or other. The take down disc an recoil bolt have residues and the stock’s barrel channel is no longer bare wood as it had when it left Brunn I.

 

[Mauserguy85]

From the picture reference section: pzjgr’s dot 44 example from 2010. Notice the difference in the wood and what @Bob in OHIO is talking about…

 

[DZelenka]

The gun looks right with its numbering… but the wood (and metal) has been coated with shellac or other. The take down disc an recoil bolt have residues and the stock’s barrel channel is no longer bare wood as it had when it left Brunn I.

Thanks for the reply. When you say that the metal has been coated with shellac, you are speaking of the stock metal, correct? The barreled action certainly doesn't have a coating other than oil.

With respect to its numbering, I am comfortable that the barrel channel number was a factory mistake, and you seem to agree, correct? Also, all is well with the un-numbered parts?

No issue with a properly numbered milled floor plate, correct?

For my first German Mauser, I think I did well. If I wanted to restore the stock to its original finish, how would I go about it? Would it be worth it or should I just leave well enough alone?

I am still curious about a ballpark retail value. I need it for insurance and the purchase price was below market.

Dan

PS Attached is a picture of the Steyr code on my MP44. quz? znb? Should be bnz. Clearly the factories were not mistake free.

 

[DZelenka]

From the picture reference section: pzjgr’s dot 44 example from 2010. Notice the difference in the wood and what @Bob in OHIO is talking about…

Definitely. What does the writing under the butt plate mean?

 

[Mauserguy85]

“Doing well” on a k98k purchase is fairly subjective but the standard really comes down to what you paid in relation to fair market prices….

 

[Teed]

I don’t think metal part’s are refinished, but stock does

 

[Mauserguy85]

I don’t think metal part’s are refinished, but stock does

Nobody said the metal was “refinished”. BIO said that you can see the spillover of the post war applied shellac/varnish onto the recoil lug and bolt take down disc and he’s right.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Brunn 1 has always been outside my personal collecting interest. I focused on Brunn II (DOU) instead. I can’t say with % certainty about the floorplate numbering. The 7’s font on the floorplate is different to all the other 7’s on your example. However from looking at my reference materials, that style of 7 stamps were used by late dot’s. So I will have to defer to the collectors with much more Brunn 1 experience. For me, that’s the only part of the metal that has me “slightly concerned”. The fact that it is milled isn’t something too concerning because leftover stocks of parts were being used up and at least with other manufacturers and assemblers of k98ks, this was a common occurrence in this timeframe.

Value… it’s a refinished stock that has a factory error in numbering, but matching example (unless someone proves the FP numbers are bad). You didn’t mention the bore condition? For me, thats a very important factor. This is not a rare or scarce code unfortunately. As is (very good bore let’s say), I would personally expect this to sell for $1500. I could be wrong but that where I would put its value at. On gunbroker or similar auction site, maybe it would go for more but you also have fees to deal with. The target audience would be more of an entry level to mid k98k collector imo.

As to “fixing the stock” of its post war coating. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you can make it much worse. On a Russian capture, 15 years back… you were able to experiment on those stocks because the guns cost $200-$280. With values where they are I would research older threads here and ask the top guys what would be the best course of action for the stock, if any… going down to the hardware store for some citri strip, steel wool and BLO always ends very badly.

 

[DZelenka]

Bore condition is great. There is no pitting. Honestly, it looks pretty new.

With respect to the 7s, are you talking about the slight curve in the stem?

 

[DZelenka]

What is this B mark?

 

[Mauserguy85]

It’s a in-house proof marking done by Mauser Oberndorf (the original Mauser factory). The triggerguard was supplied to Brunn 1 by them. The single “135” inspection on the TG is the obvious giveaway and identifier on who made it.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Definitely. What does the writing under the butt plate mean?

it can mean the stock production date, generally but not always in the format day of week, week of year, last 2 digits of year.
German weeks begin on Monday and production weeks begin with the 1st full week of the year after new years day. It helps if you seach up a German calendar for the year of interest, then count weeks & days. so yours is 6th day (Sat) 16th week 1944. The “JP” prefix could mean anything, but not likely JP Sauer, because Sauer got stocks from Haenel, & were small takedown disc stocks through the end of the war. Often, these numbers were marked with steel stamps and included a maker code.

 

[Mauserguy85]

but not likely JP Sauer, because Sauer got stocks from Haenel, & were small takedown disc stocks through the end of the war.

Not entirely accurate. Short version. Haenel did start supplying JPS with stocks that had the 30mm stock disc towards the very end of production along with getting Mauser Oberndorf stocks thrown in as well and the really rare Menzel supplied stock. Just putting that out there because many years ago I encountered such a late ce44 example and because it didn’t have the trademark 25mm small takedown disc I assumed the stock was replaced…

It’s actually a very interesting subject and way more complex with cancelled army contracts, sauer scrambling to first acquire larger 30mm stock discs and than ship to Mauser O, etc, etc…. but this is not a JPS thread, lol.

 

[Muncher 1953]

Not entirely accurate. Short version. Haenel did start supplying JPS with stocks that had the 30mm stock disc towards the very end of production along with getting Mauser Oberndorf stocks thrown in as well and the really rare Menzel supplied stock. Just putting that out there because many years ago I encountered such a late ce44 example and because it didn’t have the trademark 25mm small takedown disc I assumed the stock was replaced…

It’s actually a very interesting subject and way more complex with cancelled army contracts, sauer scrambling to first acquire larger 30mm stock discs and than ship to Mauser O, etc, etc…. but this is not a JPS thread, lol.

you DO understand the meaning of the word LIKELY, do you not?
& exactly, its not about JPS, the OP has a dot rifle, & so is the example you referenced, unless you’re saying that the stock in the pic sticky you referenced is actually a JPS stock. (or this one, & please tell us WHY, if that’s the case) The OP asked what the writing means, I don’t see how your post addresses or answers that.

I’d love to read your thread about JPS big disc stocks & how common they really are, who supplied them to JPS, & which series of serials numbers they were used on, THAT would be informative, in a separate thread.

 

[DZelenka]

I couldn't help myself. I took the butt plate off. Clearly, it has been removed before as the shellac is under the sides of the stock. I see what the bare wood looks like so that gives me a reference. Unfortunately, all of the pencil marks are not present.

By the way, is there some limit on file uploads?

 

[Mauserguy85]

Well at least you can see what the wood was supposed to look like inside.

 

[Mauserguy85]

you DO understand the meaning of the word LIKELY, do you not?
& exactly, its not about JPS, the OP has a dot rifle, & so is the example you referenced, unless you’re saying that the stock in the pic sticky you referenced is actually a JPS stock. (or this one, & please tell us WHY, if that’s the case) The OP asked what the writing means, I don’t see how your post addresses or answers that.

I’d love to read your thread about JPS big disc stocks & how common they really are, who supplied them to JPS, & which series of serials numbers they were used on, THAT would be informative, in a separate thread.

Look man, you brought JP Sauer into this post when nobody else did. You opened it up and unfortunately you made this false statement:

“because Sauer got stocks from Haenel, & were small takedown disc stocks through the end of the war”

I felt it was inaccurate and something that many who are not JPS aficionados do not know and may be reading your response. There is a common misconception, that JPS pretty much exclusively used Haenel stocks in assembly and with the “small style” 25mm stock disc. That’s LIKELY true pretty much until about the “O” and “P” blocks of 1944 assembly. Then you have Mauser supplied stocks and under 5000 menzel stocks that were ordered/delivered and finally at the very end Haenel supplied stocks with the “big style” 30mm stock discs.

I was being civil in my response to you and just sharing some info so you and others don’t have the same misconception that I did many years ago, but I sense you felt offended by it. I’m a straight shooter man, wasn’t trying to act like a know it all jerk if that’s how you interpreted it.