Russian Sniper Rifles. 1941 SVT-40 and 1944 PU

[mdarnell19]

I figured this is a good place to post these since they were more than likely used by German snipers. Here are the two most common snipers produced by the Russians during WWII.

The first is a 1941 SVT sniper. All matching except the mount and magazine. 1941 and 1942 were the only years that SVT 40 snipers were produced. The second is a 1944 PU sniper produced by Izhevsk. It is all matching except for the scope. Neither of these rifles have been refurbished and are not import marked. Enjoy. Please share if you have a similar rifle.

 

[mdarnell19]

More pictures

 

[RyanE]

I can confirm the SVT40 is a real sniper. I've only actually seen two all original examples (including this one) outside of Russian museums, though I've heard rumors of one or two others. Exceedingly rare!

The PU is a really nice combat carried example and a real one also. These are almost always scopeless when found (as this one was) for whatever reason.

 

[Dave Roberts]

Matt Thank You, for Posting 2 very interesting and rare original russian sniper rifles . These two are the only one I have ever seen , although I would not know an original one if it was staring me in the face . The period photos are also interesting , specially the ones of German Soldiers with the SVT sniper rifles . Thanks Again . Best Regards

 

[Absolut]

Hi Ryan, how do you identify an original sniper? Just curious. I have seen quite several of those here in European collections and wonder why you are talking of only two original snipers ..

 

[RyanE]

Hi Ryan, how do you identify an original sniper? Just curious. I have seen quite several of those here in European collections and wonder why you are talking of only two original snipers ..

When I say "all original", I mean factory matching rifles. I am excluding mismatched Finnish capture snipers and post-war refurbished snipers as there are obviously quite a few of those.

In 1941, identifying original snipers isn't that difficult. ALL snipers were made at Factory No.314 (Tula/Mednogorsk). Izhevsk and Podolsk never produced any. Virtually all 1941 snipers will have a cyrillic 'C' on the right side of the receiver. Obviously easily faked, but with practice you can spot the real ones. The notch shape is another thing to look for as most fakes are not even close. The notches will sometimes have small inspections in them, but not always. Finally, and most importantly, Ratnik has assembled a list of legit sniper SNs and all 41 snipers were produced in their own letter blocks, so if a rifle is in a known sniper block there is no question its a real one.

In 1942, snipers were no longer produced in special blocks (you can find both snipers and regular rifles in the same block), but snipers are still found in only certain blocks. The 'C' on the receiver was also no longer used. Luckily, scope rails were eliminated in July 1941 for all regular rifles, and those are a little harder to cut than a simple notch. You don't see too many 1942 fakes, most are 1940 and 1941.

No snipers were made in 1940 or after October 1942. Also, aside from prototypes, no SVT38s were made into snipers though they all have the sniper rails. If you see a 38 with a SVT40 style scope mount, its a fake.

Here is Ratniks list: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?319021-SVT-40-Sniper-list

 

[Dave Roberts]

Great Info Ryan . Thank You for sharing it

 

[Hambone]

Matt, thank you, and Ryan. Pic stickied for reference. Good info.

My PU sniper, which is I believe factory matching, original finish, but had a once over before storage postwar.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?5978-M-91-30-PU-Ishevsk-43-Sniper

 

[mdarnell19]

Thanks for the kind words guys. As Ryan pointed out these rifles are very hard to find in original condition (not refurbished or import marked). I am searching for a PEM or PE (which may be even harder to find).

Also to note is that the mounts for the SVT rifles are extremely rare. Mounts were produced only in 1941 and 1942. Both year of mounts will be similar in all aspects except 1941 mounts will have the rifle letter prefix while 1942 mounts will only have the serial number. The font on the 1942 mounts will be larger also. The reason the mounts are so rare are because once the Russian military determined that the SVT was not accurate enough to be a sniper they pulled the mounts off the rifles, melted the mounts to reuse the metal and re-issued the rifle without the scope. The scopes were set to the side for later use. Later these scopes were re-calibrated and used on the PU snipers during refurb. Scopes can be found dated 1940-1942 on SVT rifles. The scope on this rifle is a early 1940 produced scope.

A big thanks to RyanE and Ratnik in the Ukraine for teaching me so much about these rifles.

 

[Absolut]

Thanks Ryan! Will check with the rifles of friends if they are original according to your description. One of them once sold a (definately original) sniper with matching scope mount, but it was decativated and therefore I didn't buy it (the asking price was € 1100). I only have an original Tokarev mount which a colleague gave to me as a present, because it had two holes drilled on the side, and I still need a friend of mine to weld tem. Will check if it also has a suffix on it, curious now!

The Russian snipers are much rarer and more sought after in the US than in Europe, at least it appears to be.

I have five or six original PU snipers, among them is one Hungarian (02 coded) PU sniper. I paid between € 250 and € 450 for each of them. The only one I paid more was the Vz.52 (or M52), ancestor to the Vz.54 Czech sniper rifle - I paid about the same as I got for the two Vz.54 I sold (.. and only kept the best of the three Vz.54 I had).

I also have one with the middle mount and PEM scope, and two more scopes (one PE and one PEM) with the middle mount. The side mount PEM appears not that often, I only have a scope complete with mount and base and PEM scope.

 

[mdarnell19]

Thanks Ryan! Will check with the rifles of friends if they are original according to your description. One of them once sold a (definately original) sniper with matching scope mount, but it was decativated and therefore I didn't buy it (the asking price was € 1100). I only have an original Tokarev mount which a colleague gave to me as a present, because it had two holes drilled on the side, and I still need a friend of mine to weld tem. Will check if it also has a suffix on it, curious now!

The Russian snipers are much rarer and more sought after in the US than in Europe, at least it appears to be.

I have five or six original PU snipers, among them is one Hungarian (02 coded) PU sniper. I paid between € 250 and € 450 for each of them. The only one I paid more was the Vz.52 (or M52), ancestor to the Vz.54 Czech sniper rifle - I paid about the same as I got for the two Vz.54 I sold (.. and only kept the best of the three Vz.54 I had).

I also have one with the middle mount and PEM scope, and two more scopes (one PE and one PEM) with the middle mount. The side mount PEM appears not that often, I only have a scope complete with mount and base and PEM scope.

Thanks for sharing. Could you post pictures of your PE rifle? I would love to see. Also, feel free to post pictures of your Tokarev mount. Ryan and I can give you more information. Thanks.

 

[Horilka]

The first is a 1941 SVT sniper. All matching except the mount and magazine. 1941 and 1942 were the only years that SVT 40 snipers were produced.

Matt,
this mag probably would be more appropriate for 1943-1944 rifle.
Very nice rifles btw, thanks for posting them.

 

[Absolut]

The only picture I have at hand, typing from my iPad. But should be enough to give an idea. Mount is a bit more sported than I remembered it, but since I don't have a Tokarev for it to go with it doesn't matter that much.

 

[RyanE]

Matt,
this mag probably would be more appropriate for 1943-1944 rifle.
Very nice rifles btw, thanks for posting them.

Magazine is mid/late 1941 production. Prefixes and mag numbers were dropped from he magazines at the same time as the bolt carriers etc (~July 1941). SN font is the "early" pattern so its not appropriate for a later rifle.

 

[Horilka]

Chumak believes mags with no prefixes were produced in 1944. I have observed magazines with no prefixes matching to 1944 rifles and also observed 1943 Bulgarian refurbs with no prefixes magazines in close range. Apart of the font that you think is early (and that might be the case or might be not) do you have any evidences of late 1941 or 1942 rifles with matching no prefix magazines?

 

[RyanE]

Chumak believes mags with no prefixes were produced in 1944. I have observed magazines with no prefixes matching to 1944 rifles and also observed 1943 Bulgarian refurbs with no prefixes magazines in close range. Apart of the font that you think is early (and that might be the case or might be not) do you have any evidences of late 1941 or 1942 rifles with matching no prefix magazines?

The number dies used on this magazine were gone by 1942. Things at Tula/Mednogorsk were understandably a bit chaotic in late 1941- early 1942, and many rifles are numbered with a mix of different number dies (on some rifles, each individual number of the '1942' receiver date is stamped with a different font), but by mid/late 1942 ALL serial numbers are stamped with the simpler "square" font dies that first show up in the late summer of 1941.

 

[mdarnell19]

Here are pictures of two mags I own. They both came in 1941 dated rifles which were were other wises all matching guns. The fonts on my mags are very similar to a SVT 38 mag I own. They all display the ball or dot on the end of 6's and 9's. The 44 mags are a much simpler font.

I agree with Ryan that the mags I own are of late 1941. This is purely my opinion. It seems highly more likely that these bring back rifles contain mags from similar years (41 or 42) as opposed to a later. Again, just my opinion.

 

[mdarnell19]

The only picture I have at hand, typing from my iPad. But should be enough to give an idea. Mount is a bit more sported than I remembered it, but since I don't have a Tokarev for it to go with it doesn't matter that much.

Thanks for sharing. Your mount is original WWII. It's too bad that someone ruined it like that.

 

[Absolut]

I didn't pay anything for it (and bought the scope seperately at a show for € 150), so I can't even complain on it being sportered .. but it's restorable, will probably do it when I find the time.

 

[Horilka]

The number dies used on this magazine were gone by 1942. Things at Tula/Mednogorsk were understandably a bit chaotic in late 1941- early 1942, and many rifles are numbered with a mix of different number dies (on some rifles, each individual number of the '1942' receiver date is stamped with a different font), but by mid/late 1942 ALL serial numbers are stamped with the simpler "square" font dies that first show up in the late summer of 1941.

All above sounds logic and that probably would be into some extent my best guess... however
To make conclusion that specific kind of dies were gone by 1942 you probably had to see mag matched to the early 1942 rifle with square font, or better if several to have representative data. Have you?
To make conclusion that by mid/late 1942 ALL numbers were stamped with same "square" dies you probably had to see rifles with matching magazines from that period. Have you?
My point is I'm not challenging your conclusions on fonts, but I would rather see where they came from. Just because "chaotic" is proper word not just for transitional Tula/Mednogorsk period but rather for the whole soviet manufacturing processes in general. Like Tula/Mednogorsk that kept stamping serial on the bottom of the handle while it was specifically ordered to stamp it on top to simplify the process of parts inventory.