S/174 g

Rittmeister

Senior Member
Visited a huge fleamarked this weekend and among the things I found was this 84/98 bayonet. Difficult not to like the early ones. Matching number of course.

Best Regards
Arvid
 

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My wife says it is eagle 88, but I belive it is eagle 33. We need a better magnifying glas:googlie Never learned the german WaA nomenclature. Whats the difference?
 
My wife says it is eagle 88, but I belive it is eagle 33. Never learned the German WaA nomenclature. Whats the difference?

I checked Mike Welser's most recent copy of Reichwehr & German Bayonets 1920-1945 (2nd Ed/1998). For S174 he shows WaA253 confirmed for "K" , "G", '36 & '37. The only use of WaA88 mentioned was for S177K (R. Herder) with "G" being WaA118 and/or WaA220, then WaA253 for '36/'37. I amended my copy of MW's book to reflect this previously unreported WaA in association w/S174.

I believe the numeric Waffenamt acceptance stamp was usually associated with a proscribed acceptance district. Items requiring inspection by the German Heer within that district had them marked with the stamp (either a metallic die stamp, ink stamp, etc.) upon inspection. Often these districts changed and the inspectors relocated to another geographical area. This occurred in the mid-1930s and then again soon after the war began. Some facilities like Mauserwerk Oberndorf A/n were so large the factory complex itself housed the inspection service and the waffenamt assigned was for that facility alone (kind of like having your own ZIP code).

Knowing about Waffenamt inspection stamps & numbers is both of interest and benefit to collectors of material made by Germany from 1934-45. They can tell a story. Knowing what a "correct" stamp is, how it should look, where it should be applied, and what number(s) are associated with a specific item is necessary in judging the authenticity of a collectible and potentially exposing a faked one. Often the mere addition of a Waffenamt stamp can increase rarity and value of a collectable significantly... hence the plethora of fake waffenamt stamps available on the market today. BTW, nice bayo!
 
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Very interesting. My wife was right btw. The markings is WaA88, and bayonet has same stamping on pommel, press stud, and flashguard. Probably same stamp on final also, but this is almost worn out. Thanks a lot for information. Best regards Arvid
 

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S174G stamp

After reading this thread, I looked at my only S174G and it is clearly stamped 77 (no WaA).
 
After reading this thread, I looked at my only S174G and it is clearly stamped 77 (no WaA).

Thanks for your input. This is now a second, unreported WaA (77) in association with S174, and another amendment to MW's book. No S84/98 T3s were reported with this Waffenamt. However, WaA77 is well known and primarily identified as being associated with the F.B.Radom arms factory in Poland from 1940. In this instance, the Radom factory fell within the WaA77 acceptance district, as war material other than arms and components for same, are found with this acceptance marking ("lyo" coded P.38 hardshell holsters and some few very early German pattern holsters for the VIS P.35 among others).

BTW, thanks for making a point regarding Waffenamt markings. I refer to them as (in the example above) "WaA77". However, the actual marking could be in the form of a German eagle above the 77 or a German eagle above "WaA77". Both represent WaA77, but are different stamps. It appears the second pattern came into use later...possibly with the onset of WW2.
 
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s174g

I always assumed the grip screws were replaced, but they look good on this piece.
 

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First time I have observed the "neutered" grip screws on such an early bayonet. I have seen a few of these used on primarily '43-'44 vintage Horster S84/98 T3s. Sometimes it is just one screw, like on the example pictured. I have a friend whom has a similar bayonet with both screws like this. BTW, the bayonet I pictured is a screwball example I bought back in the 1980s.

I had examined a 43asw with this black paint on the scabbard and thought it must be the result of someone painting it for some reason, so moved on. Over the course of many years, I encountered another, similar example, then yet another. I then began to put the pieces together and came to the conclusion that they shared a number of characteristics. Most notably was the scabbards all looked like they had seen major repairs.

The scabbard on the bayonet pictured is nicely blued under the paint except the upper one-third, where no finish remains and numerous file marks are found all around the frog stud area. I recalled observing what looked like repairs on the other bayonets as well. I want to say these bayonets were numbered in the same or in close approximation to the "ss" letter bloc as well. Unfortunately, because I had encountered them infrequently, and perhaps several years in between, I did not retain the specifics.

However, when I came to the realization there was something to this, I decided to buy the next one I ran across. I recalled whom had this particular bayonet (the most recent example I had seen). The seller would turn up at a major collector show held every six months, and I remembered him having it for several years. So, when he surfaced the next time I gave him the $20.00 he wanted for it... figuring even though it was a mis-match, I knew it to be something more, and got that neat neutered grip screw as a bonus...
 

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Took this one apart also. Same number as serialnumber on flashguard, but a different one on the tang. No numbering on wooden grips, but stamped E/88. Best regards Arvid
 

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