Steyr MG42 production

[Loewe]

Has anyone studied "original" Steyr made MG-42 machine guns? Specifically, have they documented component parts make up on the MG-42, and whether they are sub-contract parts, original Steyr made or unmarked?

In other words, what parts are known for the MG-42 that have one of the Steyr firms code (not just bnz-swj) and or the waffenamt for them (e/623, e/815 etc..)

 

[Loewe]

Update, some progress has been made on this issue, but anyone with components for any MG variation with the following manufacturer code or waffenamt I would appreciate some feedback:

kls waffenamt WaA 189, Steyr-Daimler-Puch, Werke Warschau (Warsaw): components known P35 (p) magazines, and MG42 components. Barrels, barrel collars, trunion blocks and bolts are known. Seeking any other parts with either "kls" and or WaA e/189, especially larger MG type gear.

No code, Waffenamt WaA 77 Steyr-Daimler-Puch, Werke Radom: all metal components for the Kar98k, except barrels. P.35 (p) Seeking any parts that have WaA 77 that are not for the Kar.98k.

98E, kur, tbv, waffenamt WaA 815, Steyr-Daimler-Puch Graz: MG34-44 bipods, Magazines & loaders for the MP.40, Magazines for the MP44, they were involved in automotive work so components for such might be out there. Any part with WaA 815 is of interest.

Actually any Steyr made component, besides the Kar.98k is of interest, WaA e/623 is obviously the waffenamt for Steyr-Daimler-Puch, but this waffenamt was used at several facilities. Their MG42 receivers were not made at Steyr, neither were barrels, and final assembly was not done on the Kar98k after 1942, -and all used bnz - WaA 623.

I have put in a research request that follows these guidelines in the MRJ/205 that is mailing, with more details, and a final article will be in the next issue. Any useful contribution will be credited with the final article.

BTW- I am also working on a subcontractor component database, and any parts (any item) that have a code and a waffenamt and that is unusual I would appreciate images of. Especially in regards to any machine gun (including aircraft MG's) and anti-aircraft guns.

 

[pzjgr]

Paul, don't know if I can help you on the 42 question, although I will check my dummy 42 for any Steyr made parts for you...

On another tangent, have you done any studying of Steyr MG-34 production? According to Folke Myrvang's book, Steyr stopped production of the 34 in 42 (IIRC)...I have a dummy 34 where the barrel jacket assembly is stamped bnz 4...just wondering what you may have found, if anything on 34 production...

 

[Loewe]

Mike, thanks for the BTT!

Re-MG34, I have, and it seems Steyr moved assembly to Brno of the MG34 in 1942, and that caused some problems at Brno with rifle production. It is covered in their BIOS report. Unfortunately the postwar reports do not go into a great deal of detail on their MG34 production and as you probably know finding original MG34's or those that will contribute data are very difficult.

Steyr never was much more than an assembler of components (mostly made by subsidiaries) after 1941, and their MG42 production was primarily one of assembling components, mostly made by subsidiaries, receivers in Austria, and kls seems to have supplied several other parts. Mostly I want to know if other parts than what I listed are known.

I have the 1945 study on Steyr, and recently Farb provided me with the killer Steyr report done later, so I have been reworking my Steyr article to make it as accurate as I can in the short time before it has to be done. These reports are great for company history, financial data, personalities, relationships with other firms but they only provide a overview of actual production, with little details on component production.

Any parts with a code and or waffenamt, regardless of relationship to Steyr is of interest. I have developed a substantial database on MG34 & MG42 component trends. Data on original MG's (as in factory original) will be nearly impossible to compile, so the traits of each assembler (what was supplied-most common- to whom) will not be possible probably, but compiling all the sub-contractors, and production (codes-waffenamts-dates) is the current goal.

Paul, don't know if I can help you on the 42 question, although I will check my dummy 42 for any Steyr made parts for you...

On another tangent, have you done any studying of Steyr MG-34 production? According to Folke Myrvang's book, Steyr stopped production of the 34 in 42 (IIRC)...I have a dummy 34 where the barrel jacket assembly is stamped bnz 4...just wondering what you may have found, if anything on 34 production...

 

[Turbo Archie]

)...I have a dummy 34 where the barrel jacket assembly is stamped bnz 4....

I would love to find a bnz MG34.

Post some pictures!!!


...

 

[pzjgr]

OK, I got some pics (albeit pretty crappy, my camera battery was dying and I just grabbed some quick and dirty ones).

I have no clue what to make of this...it is an IMA bought dummy gun....bought probably 15 years ago...I had two, one was a dot 44, and this one. I cherry picked the parts from the two, and kept this one.

Now, granted, the bnz stamp does not follow norms, it is in caps as opposed to lower case, and it looks almost hand stamped...

But there is a clear WaA 4 on the jacket, and the maching marks are consistant all the way across the part, it does not looked scrubbed, and the WaA 4 is crisp, so its not like the whole shebang was scrubbed and re-stamped.

Plus, I don't see any reason to try and re-stamp anything, its not like these dummy guns are like 98k's where it might make monetary sense to try and fake something.

There is also a WaA 4 on the top cover along with another (I will have to look again to see what it is). Of course nothing really matches in any case.

So what it all means I don't know. I sent pics to Folke Myrvang a while back, he seems to think its not original...but I am unconvinced, seems legit to me. Ultimately I don't really care, can't own a real one here in New Yorkistan, and even if I could I wouldn't spend what one would cost. Maybe a semi....but this looks great in the collection as is...I especially like the bakelite stock with the steel re-inforcements....

If you want Paul, I can get an inventory of markings on all the parts, same on my 42 if it would be helpful (another dummy, but with all cherry picked German parts....)

 

[Turbo Archie]

I have a bunch of 34 jackets if you want to trade ...

Is that a real sling too??



..

 

[pzjgr]

The sling...yes and no...I bought an original sling, but the main leather part was shot....so I found new leather that was the right size, carefully cut apart the original to use the original hardware, and cut the leather handgrip and fillers off.

Then I copied the sewing pattern to attach the hardware, and used the original handgrip sections and filler, punched new holes to match, and sewed them on...a little mink oil and 15 years, and it looks pretty good.

PM me with what you have, I don't mind thinking about it, the bnz machts nichts to me....I just prefer no dot jackets, I would look for something earlier...

 

[Loewe]

I am no authority on the MG34-42, mostly follow the production because of a couple firms and the subcontracting involved. That is my interest, I would be curious to know which subcontractor parts are on the MG? Specifically the bolt, barrel, trunion, etc... especially parts that are Steyr, Grossfuss, or BSW/dfb, but any waffenamt or code is of interest as I trend waffenamts, codes and logos of all firms involved in small arms production.

If you can, thanks!

 

[pzjgr]

Ok, so I took the 34 apart....typical mixmaster, but here is what I have...

Bipod, marked on head and adjusting screw - K and S flanking Weimar E/114 (early bipod)

Feed Tray - E/487 with 963 in dimple (possibly manufacturer code?)

Top Cover - E/487 and E/4 also 963

Top Cover Latch - E/487

Belt Lifting Pawl Assembly - fcn

Barrel Jacket - E/4

Barrel Jacket Latch Pin - Might be E/77 and 238 (manufacturer code?)

Sight Pivot - E/26

Flash Hider - fxl

Front Sight - E/26

Barrel Jacket Latch - E/4

Stock - Has a WaA, but number is worn so its illegible

Charging Handle - E/26

Part of Trigger - E/26

Tripping Sear - E/18

Buttstock Latch - E/4

Rear Spring Housing (Where butt attaches) - E/11 (I think)

Sling Quick Release Part - Looks like E/892 but is tough to read

A fair amount of parts are completely unmarked (ie the moving levers inside the top cover, the main feed pawl block, lots of smaller parts like the sight, etc) I wonder if any parts other than barrels were produced for the 34 post war?

I couldn't get the grips off easily, so I couldn't check them or the grip stick...I'll try to play with them sometime...

At some point I'll do the same with the 42 and post for you...

Ohh, barrel is Israeli 55 dated so no help there. Barrel is pristine however, if anyone wants to trade a shot out German barrel for a good Israeli barrel, let me know...

Mike

 

[Loewe]

963 is Grossfuss (not Großfuß like some state), one of the main firms I track, did you see any logo's, their logo was a "G" "f" "D" with the large lower case "f" slightly above and below the upper case characters on its sides. So far the logo is only known for a small number of items, a G33/40 style kick plate, and some commercial products. Invoices from the company also... the waffenamt should be e/497 though.

They made a lot of buttplates for the 98k and components for the MG42, they were important with the development of the MG42, which is outlined in the Collector Grade book, something about a patent they held and vast experience with stamping metal. Pretty cool firm, large factory, and typical of many firearm developments, the company, in existence since 1869, had no firearm experience!

238 is Dürkopp's code, they are best known for bayonets (both wars), but made a lot of stuff. The company was actually a sewing machine maker, and made bicycles- even tinkered with the automobile early on, but off hand I do not recall if they made components for small arms. Heidler lists them involved with large anti-aircraft guns (code csd), not sure in what way. Their bayonets were inspected by e/229 1935-1938 and e/547 on 1938-1940.

Ok, so I took the 34 apart....typical mixmaster, but here is what I have...

Bipod, marked on head and adjusting screw - K and S flanking Weimar E/114 (early bipod)

Feed Tray - E/487 with 963 in dimple (possibly manufacturer code?)

Top Cover - E/487 and E/4 also 963

Top Cover Latch - E/487

Belt Lifting Pawl Assembly - fcn

Barrel Jacket - E/4

Barrel Jacket Latch Pin - Might be E/77 and 238 (manufacturer code?)

Sight Pivot - E/26

Flash Hider - fxl

Front Sight - E/26

Barrel Jacket Latch - E/4

Stock - Has a WaA, but number is worn so its illegible

Charging Handle - E/26

Part of Trigger - E/26

Tripping Sear - E/18

Buttstock Latch - E/4

Rear Spring Housing (Where butt attaches) - E/11 (I think)

Sling Quick Release Part - Looks like E/892 but is tough to read

A fair amount of parts are completely unmarked (ie the moving levers inside the top cover, the main feed pawl block, lots of smaller parts like the sight, etc) I wonder if any parts other than barrels were produced for the 34 post war?

I couldn't get the grips off easily, so I couldn't check them or the grip stick...I'll try to play with them sometime...

At some point I'll do the same with the 42 and post for you...

Ohh, barrel is Israeli 55 dated so no help there. Barrel is pristine however, if anyone wants to trade a shot out German barrel for a good Israeli barrel, let me know...

Mike

 

[pzjgr]

The Grossfuss parts must be E/497...I had both on the sheet (they were hard to make out...) and picked one....I didn't see any logo's that caught my eye...

As far as the WaA on the 238 coded part, that was a guess, I thought I could discern a 7 in there...so it might be 547...it was pretty thumped.

Certainly didn't seem like the parts were marked nearly as extensively as 98k parts, thats for sure....

 

[Loewe]

I have never seen the logo on any firearm component that Grossfuss made, except the kick plate, and I suspect it was a commercial sale or something very early, before they got their code. 1937 was supposedly when they first were approached for military production, and that was well before they started buttplates.