The Post WW2 Rg34
- Thread starter pwcosol
- Start date
I previously replied to this question by indicating that all of the post war tins that I had recorded did have the single reinforcing groove. I need to correct the record on what I stated here. After Amberg posted his post war kit in Police green finish I went back and checked the data base. There are in fact tins without the retention ridge recorded. All of the tins that are maker marked have the retention ridge. Many of the unmarked tins have the ridge as well but some do not. This was an error on my part. My data base is/was heavily weighted to marked pieces which may explain part of my error. I stopped recording unmarked pieces as they were myriad and there seemed little point. What I do have recorded, shows a greater number of unmarked examples with the ridge than without but the sample size is probably too small to be definitive. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks to all who have contributed to this interesting thread/subject.
Thanks Slash for the update. This helps explain a few kits I had seen on Ebay from a seller which bore no reinforcement rib. Wasn't quite sure if they were original (repros or the latest POS to emanate from China, etc.). Now it is clear this guy is just repainting perhaps lesser-condition kits he got on the cheap, aiming for the re-enactor or Rg34 "fashion" market.
On a related note, here is another Post-WW2 Rg34 variant I recalled seeing years ago. Seems to be a typical W.German pattern. However, in lieu of the small cleaning brush, they came equipped with the pictured screwdriver. Cannot tell for sure, but it appears in the second photo, the case may have been over-painted in that bright forest green. The owner of the first kit stated he got it about 20 years ago. If the earlier kits originally came equipped with a HWK and the tools were eventually withdrawn (and likely consigned to storage), then it seems plausible this is when they were replaced with either the driver or small brush. Later orders of new Rg34s would have only come with the brush.
Amended 09/15/20: I ended up buying the kit on the left ($22./delivered). Most notably the two brushes are about 25% shorter than standard lengths, and were produced that way.
On a related note, here is another Post-WW2 Rg34 variant I recalled seeing years ago. Seems to be a typical W.German pattern. However, in lieu of the small cleaning brush, they came equipped with the pictured screwdriver. Cannot tell for sure, but it appears in the second photo, the case may have been over-painted in that bright forest green. The owner of the first kit stated he got it about 20 years ago. If the earlier kits originally came equipped with a HWK and the tools were eventually withdrawn (and likely consigned to storage), then it seems plausible this is when they were replaced with either the driver or small brush. Later orders of new Rg34s would have only come with the brush.
Amended 09/15/20: I ended up buying the kit on the left ($22./delivered). Most notably the two brushes are about 25% shorter than standard lengths, and were produced that way.
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P&E likely is Pinnecke & Engelhardt from Braunschweig
https://www.pue-schiessscheiben.de/zubehoer/
Thanks
I think you are hitting on something here Amberg. Good work.
pwcosol - The screwdriver tool is often observed in these post war kits. It has been very hard to come to any empirical conclusions on correct contents due to the mixture and trading of components. Original source material would be of great assistance ......
Yes...this has always been the crux of the issue. Anyone directly involved in German WW2 production is either gone or last of the dinosaurs. It isn't much better for the early Post-WW2 era. Only diligent, archival research for written material will likely be of benefit, as first hand knowledge at this time would be close to non-existent.
BTW, pictured are the two post-war Rg34 HKWs I recently acquired. They are reasonably well made and both came with some lite to moderate rust spots. With the application of Break-Free, a new safety razor blade (to eliminate any rust nodules) and #0000 steel wool, all but a few telltale spots were removed...
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Never tried that. I see Home Depot carries it. Does it come in #0000?
almost post war
Talking about East German postwar kits .....
This originally tan rco45 was overpainted in a very unusual grey and issued with aluminum oiler, dog chain and small bore brushes.
Last photo shows some NVA soldiers cleaning their guns. On the table you can see the early plastic cleaning kits and (what I think) dog chains.
Thanks
Talking about East German postwar kits .....
This originally tan rco45 was overpainted in a very unusual grey and issued with aluminum oiler, dog chain and small bore brushes.
Last photo shows some NVA soldiers cleaning their guns. On the table you can see the early plastic cleaning kits and (what I think) dog chains.
Thanks
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Senior Member
Another DDR kit ...
The Behälter is a marked ab44 without the inner parts separator, the paint appears to be the original gray from wartime manufacture. No Waffenamt present !
The content is the same as showed by Amberg above, and with the typical blued Hülsenkopfwischer.
An observation must be made about these cleaning chains, although it is clear that the chains shown are post-war manufacture, this type of chain itself (with the knotted links) appeared in the 1930s in Germany.
Antoni
The Behälter is a marked ab44 without the inner parts separator, the paint appears to be the original gray from wartime manufacture. No Waffenamt present !
The content is the same as showed by Amberg above, and with the typical blued Hülsenkopfwischer.
An observation must be made about these cleaning chains, although it is clear that the chains shown are post-war manufacture, this type of chain itself (with the knotted links) appeared in the 1930s in Germany.
Antoni
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Just for clarification, your statement is referring to German Rg34s up to the end of WW2 only, is of the opinion this is an absolute, and the "figure-8" pattern link chain was never utilized during that time, yes? This thread has revealed a number of revelations new to me. Really like the last two submissions by Amberg & Antoni, too!
I'm not infallible but yes. I'm of the opinion that figure-8 or dog chains were not used in the construction of barrel pull throughs for the rg34 during the period 1934 to May 1945. This type of chain may have been used for other purposes but it is not found with the rg34 until its appearance in post war DDR cleaning kits.
Here are three Braunsweigische made kits that were refurbished for post war use. All have been repainted. All include post war components although some include pieces that are unmolested wartime examples. The can at left is an arr4 with WaA392 still extant originally in blue/gray finish. The other three are all rco45 originally in flat ordnance tan finish. The middle kits are in a gray/green paint (perhaps similar to Amberg's in post #32). The kits on the ends are in a thick coat of paint that I call "Apple Green" for my own reference. I'm wondering if anything can be suggested by the color of the paint? Amberg mentions "Police Green" paint in a previous post. Would appreciate any thoughts or theories .....
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Thanks Slash for your reply on the "figure-8" chain and Antoni's picture of those offered by Pots u. Sand. Interesting they did not picture the twisted wire variant (but likely they made that one, too). I once found a small length of the latter chain which could have been used in a 5.56 kal. bore. I know this type of chain was typically found in the MEWA Rg34. Regarding the repainted, wartime Rg34s, since the Allies needed to establish stability in Germany they rapidly built up the German Police force and Bundesgrenzschutz. I believe both were issued Rg34s from wartime stocks and they were repainted forest green. Even today, Russian borderguards are equipped with the AK-74...the stock fittings, magazines and bayonet grips/scabbards all being made from a mint-green polyamide composite.
I have but one post-WW2 re-issue Rg34. It is a HAWIG (Logo/no date) w/2 E/WaA94s on the lid. The patch compartment lid is stamped
"G E W" on the left side and "1980" on the other. Tin is painted what looks like a forest green/gray. The components are all later manufacture...black phenolic oiler, later pattern unattributed HKW and a split/repaired RGK. The latter has the front half of a chain with swivel link and zinc beads marked "ayw 1941". This has been mated to a replacement rear composed of alloy beads...
I have but one post-WW2 re-issue Rg34. It is a HAWIG (Logo/no date) w/2 E/WaA94s on the lid. The patch compartment lid is stamped
"G E W" on the left side and "1980" on the other. Tin is painted what looks like a forest green/gray. The components are all later manufacture...black phenolic oiler, later pattern unattributed HKW and a split/repaired RGK. The latter has the front half of a chain with swivel link and zinc beads marked "ayw 1941". This has been mated to a replacement rear composed of alloy beads...
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