VCS Prussian Landgendarmerie Kar88

[chrisftk]

I was fortunate enough to land another former CB rifle- this one one of the seldom seen Kar88s diverted to the Prussian Land Gendarmerie.

Storz covers the background on these fairly well, but the short story is that the Prussian Land Gendarmerie were woefully under equipped in 1890 and there was growing concern that protests by coal miners and other workers in Prussia could cause serious trouble. In a rare move, a local general used his authority to go directly to the Kaiser with concerns and as a result, these relatively new carbines were diverted from Army stocks to the Land Gendarmerie before the outfitting of the military allotment was filled. The fact that a police force would receive new weapons prior to military units was unheard of.

While CB owned 3 of these, I believe only six of them have been documented thus far. These were apparently a pet project of his and I'm honored to have one in my possession. Most, but not all have the script "H" or "K" on the receiver, though the meaning of this is unknown.

Aside from a m/m triggerguard the carbine is in immaculate condition with a very crisp stock. The sling is original, but the keeper appears to be a repro. The stock is on very tightly, but I will provide some internal pics if I am able to safely remove the stock.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Gringo]

Great looking rifle Chris with a lot of interesting history. Just curious what the buckle arrangement looks like in the sling. Real slings from that era are so rarely seen, I'm just curious if they used the same pattern as used by the Kar98a later on.

 

[chrisftk]

Great looking rifle Chris with a lot of interesting history. Just curious what the buckle arrangement looks like in the sling. Real slings from that era are so rarely seen, I'm just curious if they used the same pattern as used by the Kar98a later on.

The sling itself looks original to me. It's a different design than the 98a. The loop is actually sewn onto the sling in a fixed position. There are several holes similar to a 98a though.

Unfortunately the keeper/buckle is a Welser repro (I recognize his work), but having a correct sling is pretty cool.

I'll snap a few pics when I am able.

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[PrayingMantis]

Very Cool, Chris. Great Kar and wonderful history.

 

[Loewe]

Excellent pick-up, I am glad to get good pictures of another of CB's rifles/carbines, I know most of his collection as he detailed them, often in detail, but rarely pictures of detail. The Amoskeag picture was just an overview...

Here is an outline CB wrote a decade or more ago, it may be helpful to those interested in these very unusual variations (note CB's source notes, he almost always did this and this shows the character of the man, he was first rate in integrity of source material, he never put on a display of arrogance or "omniscient"):

Kar 88s and variants in German police and customs service a/o 27.XI.11

My main source is: Wirtgen, Handfeuerwaffen der deutschen Gendarmerie und Polizei des 19. und 20. Jahrhunderts, Koblenz, 188, passim.

Standard type K88s: Introduced for Prussian Gendarmerie March 1890. In service until June 1928 when replaced by the K98a in all areas except those then occupied by the French. Example illustrated: V.C.Schilling, 1890, SN 9735; S on ring, K above the S*,
Sling band: L.G. 1788.

*I have observed the K previously on a sporterised K88. Wirtgen doesn’t know what it indicates, nor do I.
See Noll, 1998, for more L.G. K88s. For some reason I can’t find one…

Hamburg Police version; see data previously reported.

Baden Zollkarabiner 88
See the Gendarmerie version shown in Scarlatta. The Zoll has no butt trap and (since Wirtgen doesn’t say so) may not have the commercial ammunition stamps on the left side of the receiver. Wirtgen does not specify the year of introduction. Example illustrated: C.G.H. 7 V.C.S., 1891, SN 6.

Baden Gendarmeriekarabiner 88
Introduced December 1898. Example illustrated: C.G. Haenel, 1896, SN 69

My sample: C.G.Haenel, 1896, SN 162.; shown in Scarlatta.

I suspect the Badens may be the origin of the K88s/G91s supposedly fitted with bayonet studs during WWI. I wish somebody would produce one…

Joe Wotka may have more information on these in his capacious files.

 

[chrisftk]

Excellent pick-up, I am glad to get good pictures of another of CB's rifles/carbines, I know most of his collection as he detailed them, often in detail, but rarely pictures of detail. The Amoskeag picture was just an overview...

Here is an outline CB wrote a decade or more ago, it may be helpful to those interested in these very unusual variations (note CB's source notes, he almost always did this and this shows the character of the man, he was first rate in integrity of source material, he never put on a display of arrogance or "omniscient"):

Kar 88s and variants in German police and customs service a/o 27.XI.11

My main source is: Wirtgen, Handfeuerwaffen der deutschen Gendarmerie und Polizei des 19. und 20. Jahrhunderts, Koblenz, 188, passim.

Standard type K88s: Introduced for Prussian Gendarmerie March 1890. In service until June 1928 when replaced by the K98a in all areas except those then occupied by the French. Example illustrated: V.C.Schilling, 1890, SN 9735; S on ring, K above the S*,
Sling band: L.G. 1788.

*I have observed the K previously on a sporterised K88. Wirtgen doesn’t know what it indicates, nor do I.
See Noll, 1998, for more L.G. K88s. For some reason I can’t find one…

Hamburg Police version; see data previously reported.

Baden Zollkarabiner 88
See the Gendarmerie version shown in Scarlatta. The Zoll has no butt trap and (since Wirtgen doesn’t say so) may not have the commercial ammunition stamps on the left side of the receiver. Wirtgen does not specify the year of introduction. Example illustrated: C.G.H. 7 V.C.S., 1891, SN 6.

Baden Gendarmeriekarabiner 88
Introduced December 1898. Example illustrated: C.G. Haenel, 1896, SN 69

My sample: C.G.Haenel, 1896, SN 162.; shown in Scarlatta.

I suspect the Badens may be the origin of the K88s/G91s supposedly fitted with bayonet studs during WWI. I wish somebody would produce one…

Joe Wotka may have more information on these in his capacious files.

Thanks Paul, I was happy to snag this.

Side note: Did you see the Baden Zollkarabiner I posted in your 88 research thread? I lucked into that one at a smaller auction house.

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[mauser1908]

That's a screamer Chris!

 

[pzjgr]

Oh, yeah, awesome kar....I love these little guns, so , and the spoon handle bolts on these are damned cool!

Very interesting history on these Landgendarmerie guns too, thanks for sharing!

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Paul, I was happy to snag this.

Side note: Did you see the Baden Zollkarabiner I posted in your 88 research thread? I lucked into that one at a smaller auction house.

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Chris, very irregular activity on the internet, - terribly busy and behind and the worse internet service in the Western Hemisphere... haven't seen my email in nearly a week..

I will try and remember to check the G88 thread, usually I just skim the forums I moderate and the 98k forum.

** I am glad you are getting so many of CB's rifles, I can think of no one better to preserve them and further our knowledge on these rare variations he specialized in - his last article he and I were tinkering with were similar in some regards, "G.A. Lauf" 98a and Reichrevolvers, he was fascinated by the subject and spent some time studying it... I need to try and publish his draft article after reviewing his notes and our discussions. Of course it will interest very few besides you and I!