Why my participation at Gunboards is now quite limited

Hambone

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
It's the moderators. Here is the message I got for the "suspension":

You have been banned for the following reason:
False statements, arguing with the rules
Date the ban will be lifted: 05-01-2015, 10:00 AM

Here is the reason:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?393385-Possible-Scam-Fakery-found/page9

I have little use for hypocrites and those abuse any position to foster their personal agendas and biases. I deal with them sometimes in real life and they are much more polite in person. They all would like to control the narrative like Nick has here. No one benefits from not discussing auction fakery except fakers. Normally, someone accusing me of "false statements", i.e., lying, gets called out to the parking lot.
 
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Hambone, I hope you do not mind me hopping on top of your post here. It is a great jumping off point for my comments below. If you feel like moving it or banning me go ahead :)

That thread has boiled my blood from the beginning. My buddies and I kept talking about it and I couldn't figure out why it irked me so much. I was appalled at the reaction of the mosin community. The how could this happen to our community attitude and the very emotional reaction they decided to take. I got the vibe that they felt they were too good for fakery and this one instance would be the last.

There was no call for RESEARCH on the "victims" behalf. There was absolutely no fault placed on the buyers. If you're buying 4 SA stamped recaptures out of a crate, may be an issue. Hambone, you post the stamps EVERYWHERE. If someone really looked at the stamp for 30 seconds they could have figured it out.

Then.....

The other night the BCD commercial thread happened here and on ww2wf. The succinct identification and dismassal of the fake was impressive. The recent BSW was the same way. They were identified as fakes and called out with absolutely tremendous and tedious research and documentation. The level of mauser education over here is very high and everyones first piece of advice is buy the books. Buy the books, use the reference forum, ask questions.

I really appreciate the effort of the k98 collecting community as a whole and the attitude over here. There has never been a time where I have felt shunned over anything. Anyone can ask whatever they want and get real answers.

I did not see a single post asking if a triple dated MO marked 91/30 was right with an SA stamp on it. The amount of red flags is through the roof there with even the tiniest bit of knowledge.

That being said, humpers and fakers are the worst type of human beings and should be shunned. Its collecting. There are going to be fakes everywhere.

Hopefully my rant is not too far off for this post.
 
Their blanket "no ongoing auctions" is counter productive. As you stated, auctions of bad rifles are good for everyone to learn, especially newbies. They dont seem to care. I think gunboards main MO now is profit. There seems to be as many ads on GB and gunbroker. LOL
 
The "ongoing auction rule" was originally to stop forum members from using the forum as an advertising aid which is proper. Calling out a faker and making collectors, many new(like me) aware of these fakes is not the same thing in my mind. The amount of humping of rifles and ripping off the unsuspecting seems to be on the rise. Personally I think the collector forums need to revise their thinking in this regard. My grandfather used to tell me, " You only get one reputation and when it's ruined, it's ruined for good."
Kudos to Hambone, Mr. Farb and a few others for using their knowledge to prevent fraud.
 
Current Thread

Mike if you or any of our members want a moderator to give an auction a once over, we are more than happy to help.
The process stays in the background and if the auction is a total hump job, then we may decide to expose it by publishing the link.
 
I agree guys, but obviously a discussion of the discussion is "suspension worthy". Make no mistake, what you see is more subjective, moderator abuse / baiting, than rational. Nick baited and I responded, i.e. took the bait. I could have posted almost anything as there is a whole little moderator forum there now boiling with hissing and spitting about my posts. Of course, the point is the truth: Who do you protect by disallowing the posting of auction links to fakes? While we don't post ongoing auction links here, we have an exception for fakery. Some of it even has comedic value.

The exception to the GB "no ongoing auction post" rule for fakes (coined "Turd Alerts") was in place for years when I was a mod, and is still in place today, so the suggestion that it is a GB site wide rule by "Nick" the mod is incorrect. However, again, this is more about bird-dogging and baiting than rational or reasonable conduct. As MNs / SVTs, etc., increase in value, so too will fakery and they will have to mature, change policies, change moderators, etc., to deal with it or suffer the consequences. If fakery doesn't increase it only means that MNs/SVTs are not valuable. And, as I posted earlier to them, if they want to collect things that aren't faked, they need to collect things with no value, such as cigarette butts, dirt, roadside rocks, broken glass, etc.
 
bruce98k said:
Mike if you or any of our members want a moderator to give an auction a once over, we are more than happy to help.
The process stays in the background and if the auction is a total hump job, then we may decide to expose it by publishing the link.
Click to expand...

This. And Mike, as you noted, we've all kind of agreed as mods that ongoing auction links can be used to "advertise" auctions, or as a vetting place for auctions, both of which attract drive-bys who exploit the goodwill of our site members, literally the most knowledgeable collectors (and authors) from around the world. I doubt there is a single person posting here, one our members, who has not received private assistance about auctions or anything else when they requested it.

Again, my "suspension" was more about extreme pettiness and hypocrisy than it was about the issues, which are significant and should be discussed, particularly in MN/SVT collecting where fakery is obviously becoming more prevalent. We've address and resolved our problems and cleaned up our hobby.
 
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Just read the GB thread; seems there's a lot of ideas and suggestions over there to support HBs responses, and legitimate concern over the growing fakery on auction sites. One person stated that it, referring to the action taken by the Mod at GB was to bad, that HB was a good member. Hell, he's an asset! More than that, HB seems to be one of the people, one of the Mods that is most respected on this site. Do any of us go about things 100 % correctly 100% of the time, NO. But to receive a public reprimand! And then, as the GB Mod goes on to tell the members of the entire site the reason why He suspended HB! Incredibly unprofessional! But then again, public reprimands seem fairly common there. Wouldn't all things have been better served through a PM?
 
Ham should take all this as a compliment. Being attacked for seeking / speaking the truth is an extremely honorable thing.
 
Thank you Rook, Dave. My "misconduct" is what you see. At least that wasn't scrubbed. The problem there is some of those Gunboards moderators, "Nick" included, are guilty of ignoring and violating the rules they seek to inflict upon everyone else, worse than the participants, who are like serfs it seems. Seems some of those mods need a reality check. If my mistake is not being deferential and obsequious, or "disagreeing with a moderator", then that is not a good place. It certainly doesn't encourage open exchange of information and debate, which certainly doesn't help the information base. Petty mod conduct, baiting, and looking for a reason....... We don't work that way here, which is why "here" was made necessary by moderator abuses there.
 
I am extremely new to collecting German rifles.

Please keep doing what you are doing on every board. It is a huge benefit to us all as to not only pointing out what is humped, but also what to look for in a humped rifle. I can now at least look through Gb Auctions and see a few "issues" myself and hope you guys point them out and I'm correct.
What you are doing is a service, thanks.
 
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

Hambone: Your service, diligence, and character do not go unnoticed here. You have my utmost respect and support. Thank you for your continued efforts to preserve and protect our hobby...


Best Regards
G.
 
New to hobby

To a new collector, the proverbial German rifle market is literally a minefield.
Even as Mike and I found out when working on the book project, most large collections accumulated from the 50s to the 90s and into 2K were problematic.
And these were held by veteran collectors. While not the rule, many of the collections Mike and I reviewed followed this pattern for lack of better term.

Renumbering and restocking has gone on for decades but with the advent of digital tooling the copying of die stamps has proliferated over the last few years to the point
where one must be diligent in reviewing many of the rifles being offered today.

Take advantage of our knowledge base here, use it and learn. Even thought I have been at it for a few years now, I am still learning.
 
it's really no different than anything else that gets counterfeited. currency, artwork ect. The guys who do this for profit will always be improving their skills. I for one just looked a 100 rifle collection and more than 1/2 had issues of some type.. Some were turds other's tampered post war. Only two dozen were 100% correct. I was kinda shocked because I always thought he knew his stuff.. What happens is collectors rely on sellers to sell them good stuff not knowing or checking good from bad. I think that's why the closet mentality has to stop. Share your stuff.. Even if you think you will get bad news. That's the point you will know and you will learn. If you've never bought a bad item you probably have never bought much or are damn lucky. This forum in general has taken this hobby light years forward where it was even 10 years ago. Im proud to be a part of it and was honored to be asked to moderate here.
 
dont feel bad I left there discussion sections years, and I mean years ago i got suspended for something stupid I was active in the DDR section, too many experts (not) to o many false opinions and brown nosers

leaving GB has not stopped me move on others will leave to f*ckem

I go there for the trader section and I rarely buy anything

I have read our old post and others from there who post here Thank You for coming to this site

yes fakes abound, repro parts, repro slings, repro pouches, when you point that out the unknowing do not care pisses me off
 
Thanks DoubleApex, guys. I try my best.

The problem with banning people for having different opinions, or because you are a fellow with too much authority, is that it eliminates the vetting of misinformation, particularly when it is coming from the moderator. The Supermoderator is now dispensing bad "legal advise" concerning the IDing of fakery and "liability" for it. The standard is now challenge me and I'll ban you, while I give bad information. This does not help the collecting community and discourages fake outing.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?393385-Possible-Scam-Fakery-found/page10
 
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I wonder if GB would ban me if I posted this as an Turd Alert active auction? This is an older screen shot of a Chinese fake Waffenampt die I saved that was a live auction on Fleabay.

If I saw this today as a live auction on Fleabay, I think you guys would let me post this as an exception or Turd Alert. How else are forum members to learn or identify fraud which is getting worse in this community?

Why GB would not do the same strikes me as a disservice to the community - just my 2 cents.


Chinese Fake Waffenampt EBay.jpg
 
Hambone said:
Thanks DoubleApex, guys. I try my best.

The problem with banning people for having different opinions, or because you are a fellow with too much authority, is that it eliminates the vetting of misinformation, particularly when it is coming from the moderator. The Supermoderator is now dispensing bad "legal advise" concerning the IDing of fakery and "liability" for it. The standard is now challenge me and I'll ban you, while I give bad information. This does not help the collecting community and discourages fake outing.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?393385-Possible-Scam-Fakery-found/page10
Click to expand...

"The standard is now "CHALLENGE ME AND I'LL BAN YOU, WHILE I GIVE BAD INFORMATION"! It's not just the collecting community, that's just abuse of authority and power. Just like the turd occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. You would think that things among people of common interest would be handled with a little bit more respect.
 
I was so glad to get referred to this forum when I was researching the K98k I bought a couple of years ago. I appreciate all the advice and education about humpers I've received here. All this education has made me really skittish though when I see something at a gunshow now. At least now I'm somewhat forewarned and forearmed thanks to the knowledge shared here. I really appreciate the help and advice given here!
 
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