Why my participation at Gunboards is now quite limited

Amen to that glad to be part of this forum and to be able to help other collectors enjoy this hobby as much as I do. And if it wasn't for this forum and the information provided it would be hard telling how much I may have been burn in the past. Perfect example: remember when the BSW Navy rifle was listed on Gunbroker a few months back as 100% original and that rifle with up past the $4000 mark and to find out later it was a fake and the auction was shutdown because of it. If it was not for the knowledge and the help from forum members here and the WW2 weapons forum. Hard telling how bad someone could have been burn by that rifle. And you know what Hambone if they don't appreciate you there on Gun-boards then stay here where your knowledge and advise is appreciated my many forum members here including me thumbs up to buddy :thumbsup:
 
"nick" seems to be a bit sensitive. I like the Abe quote, so true. I myself am a rule breaker I know, but some rules are so stupid they need to be pushed to be changed but I do not think "they" will. I have clashed with some members over the years, hambone you were one of them, before I realized that we are on the same side. I was a newbie then and did not know the level of knowledge these guys are sharing. I have tried to point out fakery on finn "matching" stamped bolts over there and it falls on deaf ears. They defended the numbering or just stuck their heads in the sand. If they attack some of the most experienced they will have no one at all. It's already like romper room over there compared to a few years ago with all the "experts".
 
Blow Against the Empire

Ham..I certainly appreciate what you do. I look at this forum as the last bastion of honor. I know all the guys here can be counted on and frankly they lengthened my time in the hobby.
 
It sad when knowledge is brushed aside to embrace ignorance over pride. I thankful for the knowledge that is freely shared on this site by such knowledgeable people. I have always gotten help here when needed and am sincerely apprecitive to those who vetted a purchase for me or pointed me in the direction of a good deal. All I can say HB is their loss.
 
Don't feel bad Hambone. I get suspended from M4Carbine.net at least once a year for speaking truth or accidentally asking the wrong question in the wrong sub-forum. I have participated in dozens of online boards since the dawn of the Internet. This forum, k98kforum.com, is BY FAR the most valuable, the most fun, and filled with some of the best people I have ever met on the internet.

Now as far as GB is concerned, the moderator you were dealing with was acting like a fool, and gloating about getting you banned, at least it seemed that way. Very unprofessional in my opinion.

They do bring up an interesting point though, which is the possible ramifications of incorrectly posting a fake and potentially facing a legal issue from a legitimate seller who feels "damages" from being portrayed as a fraudulent seller or even an accusation of being a hump-artist. M14forum DID get sued by Smith Enterprises. On a much worse case, SnipersHide and Mark Soule DID get sued by tacticalrifles.net and in both cases, although the lawsuits were BS in my opinion, they have proven EXTREMELY expensive and damaging for the good guys who did nothing other than speak the truth. If you look at the issues closely, it would not be hard for people like Mitchell's Mausers, the gray blanket, or others to come after a place like this (or GB)if they really wanted to. Even though we're right, it would not be cheap to deal with. The Internet is becoming a scary place to do business and is under ever-increasing scrutiny of the government and courts.
 
IT, thanks, but that concept of "getting sued" is overblown by those spreading such nonsense to cover their moderator abuses and those who don't know what they are talking about. For example, in my opinion, Nick the Gunboards "Supermoderator" is a petty megalomaniacal buffoon, intellectually dishonest and lacks the temperament and substantive topical knowledge to moderate a gold fish bowl, much less an internet forum. Could he sue me for that? I reckon he could spend a bunch of money and he and his lawyers would get sanctioned trying. Don't get your legal advice from Nick and Vic. BTW, IMHO what Nick did to me was fabricate enough "infractions" to total a 30 day suspension, so doesn't that make Nick the Gunboards Supermoderator as honest as a dirty cop planting evidence? What does that say about Nick personally and his character?

As for the Smith Ent., I know Ron personally, he's a friend, I could call him on his cell. Those causes of action involved more than legitimate good faith discussion and critique. If Nick the Gunboards Matlock is correct in his ridiculous attempts to excuse his misconduct with "legal advise", how could there be movie critics, restaurant critics, Angie's List, or Consumer Reports? Vic is selling ad space on GB. He wants get alongs, no controversy, no debate, no fake outing because it's bad for business. We don't have that problem here because we are not a commercial site. Google "internet defamation" and review primers from reputable sources, which do not include Nick the Angry Gunboards Legal Advise Klown ;)
Cheers,
HB
 
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Wear your infractions as a badge of honor. Getting shut down like you did isn't conducive to problem solving. I still think this site is a model of what should be done, because of the efforts/passions of people like you.
 
itwillis said:
Wear your infractions as a badge of honor. Getting shut down like you did isn't conducive to problem solving. I still think this site is a model of what should be done, because of the efforts/passions of people like you.
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Thanks IT,I do, but the greater question that should be asked of Vic about the conduct of Nick the Supermoderator concerns honesty and integrity. Nick fabricated the "infraction" of "making false statements" simply to create enough infraction points to suspend my account. What "false statements" were made by me? That the auction seller was peddling a humped rifle? We've conclusively proved that. So IMHO, what Nick did was akin to a dirty cop planting evidence on you during a traffic stop. And what is worse, a speeder or a dirty cop who plants evidence? If Gunboards was a town, would it be a respected place, a trusted place, if its cops were dirty and did such things?

Whether it be Internet or not, if you have rules which you use to lord over and abuse authority, and do so dishonestly and arbitrarily, what does it make you? What does it say about your integrity and trustworthiness? Again, all my opinions, but I think valid ones which require an explanation. It's fine if your business model disallows controversial topics and fake outing. But it's not OK to abuse your own rules and be dishonest, intellectually or otherwise.
 
The rules don't mean much. The site owners can choose whoever they want to participate as well as what rules are in place and who gets to enforce them. We can talk all day about who's being unethical, unfair, or otherwise stupid but at the end of the day we can all take our business elsewhere. Yep they're being douchebags, I guess I have lower expectations of the Internet, what you are describing happens daily to good people on many different sites.
 
itwillis said:
The rules don't mean much. The site owners can choose whoever they want to participate as well as what rules are in place and who gets to enforce them. We can talk all day about who's being unethical, unfair, or otherwise stupid but at the end of the day we can all take our business elsewhere. Yep they're being douchebags, I guess I have lower expectations of the Internet, what you are describing happens daily to good people on many different sites.
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Yes, this is true, but there is more potential legal liability for doing things like that than a lawsuit over someone publicly identifying a fake rifle. I watch with amusement at the "lawyering" going on in that thread, which is in and of itself a reason for transparency because they are spreading unwarranted fear and ignorance. IT, when someone at Gunboards starts blithering about lawsuits over fake outing, please simply ask them to cite to a case, a law, a verdict, which shows that a critique of an auction item resulted in a lawsuit, much less a verdict for "slander". Pompous blithering by a forum ignoramus, Supermoderator or otherwise, is not authority for much of anything. Such misinformation, unchecked, does harm to the collecting community.

Yes, Gunboards and Vic can do whatever they want, within legal reason, but don't pretend to have "rules" which you don't uniformly enforce, which your moderators regularly violate, which are abused. Just say "we do whatever we want and if you don't like it, leave." Otherwise, you're guilty of intellectual dishonesty; that's douchebaggery. Though, perhaps with the current regime running this country, being a douchebag is now in style, in which case I must admit, there are a few very stylish Gunboards moderators. (And they know who they are, and so does everyone else)
 
I don't actively participate on GB real often; but I too received what I considered an unnecessary, condisending public reprimand from one of there moderators. As stated; although I visit the site fairly often, I had not used it often, so I posed a simple question so I wouldn't go about things the wrong way-Bam- I guess that was wrong! Got moderator slapped! Although nothing was said about, or to one of the replies/post to my question from a senior member that clearly broke one of there rules. A simple, polite reply, or correction would have been more professional, or even a PM. But that seems to be the GB way. And not by all of them, MrFarb does give them a good name. Maybe I'm being just a little to thin skinned; but maybe they need to rethink their moderator responsibility. In the mean time, maybe I'll ban them!
 
Rook16 said:
I don't actively participate on GB real often; but I too received what I considered an unnecessary, condisending public reprimand from one of there moderators. As stated; although I visit the site fairly often, I had not used it often, so I posed a simple question so I wouldn't go about things the wrong way-Bam- I guess that was wrong! Got moderator slapped! Although nothing was said about, or to one of the replies/post to my question from a senior member that clearly broke one of there rules. A simple, polite reply, or correction would have been more professional, or even a PM. But that seems to be the GB way. And not by all of them, MrFarb does give them a good name. Maybe I'm being just a little to thin skinned; but maybe they need to rethink their moderator responsibility. In the mean time, maybe I'll ban them!
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Thanks Rook, you are experiencing what many of us have experienced there, which is a reason why we have this site, which is probably a reason why Dave has WW2 Weapons. They have some moderators there violating the very rules that they so arbitrarily and Draconianly apply to others. They have forgotten that they are there to serve the collecting community, not their own weird ego needs. It's getting worse because a couple "Supermoderators" are the worst offenders, IMHO, and they continue to prove it. It was astutely said here earlier; want to see character flaws? Give someone some power. If Vic wanted to freshen things up and turn things around, he'd demote or remove about three to four Supermoderators / Moderators. We all know who they are, they can likely be found having tantrums on their Moderator forum right now. I remember watching those meltdowns. It isn't that way here because our moderators are not selected for those qualities and our focus is a bit different.

But, we are viewing it from a hobbyist/collector standpoint, not a business standpoint. They are lucky to have Mrfarb, and some other mods there. There are some really good people as moderators there, exceptional folks, the majority of them are. Then, there are a few very bad ones, IMHO, who have become like unsupervised problem children with too much power. All my opinions of course.
 
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Runaway Mods

The main problem I have had on the other forum has been arbitrary and power-drunk mods. I have been suspended there twice by mods who sent me personal messages calling me names and insulting me after I had no way to defend myself or even respond. I don't know if these "men" are thin-skinned, drunk on their tiny bit of power, or what. There is some troll over there now calling himself "explosive" who the mods won't ban, even though he only posts to cause trouble. Meanwhile, Hambone gets suspended for calling out hypocrisy. My participation on that forum has been limited by their attitude.:moon:
 
I too enjoy listening to people on the internet talk about defamation. It was one of the big essay on my Torts II exam, and I recall there being a lot of defenses to it, both general and specific, and I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of them. Even so, that a statement of opinion (based on observations) about the authenticity of a rifle would trigger a defamation claim seems very unlikely to me....

I prefer discussion of complex issues, but to each their own I guess. At the end of it all, its not my forum, and I neither make nor enforce the rules.
 
I too have given up on Gunboards, except for the Mauser forum, because JohnS and TP are collectors first and moderators by choice, as a service to other collectors, - not two-bit megalomaniacs goosestepping over everyone like Heinrich Himmler...

I agree, regarding the legal aspects, - I have read several books on copyright laws, and one notable theme stood out, that although copyright infringement might be a problem, there is rarely much you can do about it as the remedy (suing) will rarely be worth the cost, as in most cases it will cost you more to go to court that you could recover.

Besides, in the recent cases of humperology, there is proof of the original state of the rifles, or at least a previous original state, and it is easily proven that the rifles sold recently have been altered.
 
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Loewe, I agree, both JohnS and TP are good guys. That's a good forum too.
 
Craig, The inability here to discuss items that are for sale or auction pretty much negates would should be one of the most important functions of these boards. Is your starting another set of boards/forums out of the question? I'm sure that there are a lot of us who would walk with you, if you wanted to go.
 
tsmgguy said:
Craig, The inability here to discuss items that are for sale or auction pretty much negates would should be one of the most important functions of these boards. Is your starting another set of boards/forums out of the question? I'm sure that there are a lot of us who would walk with you, if you wanted to go.
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You don't seem too quick on the draw, and obviously don't understand what is going on here. But to make it easy for you, which you apparently need, I'm going to direct you to the perfect place for you tsmgguy - http://ww2weaponsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?22-Auctions

You can post auctions ALL DAY LONG. I'm sure they would be glad to have you.
 
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