WMO/1918 serial ranges

Loewe

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Staff member
Finishing trends on WMO 1915-1918 observations I came to the conclusion that the range for 1918 is very subjective and quite lower than originally believed, - or potentially...

SO far WMO/18 production was very shallow compared to prior years, which is no surprise because we know the G98 was being sidelined for firms to expand K98a, P08 and MG08 variations... the assumption, or at least my assumption is that WMO was kept on track with G98 to service Turkey and the lack of alternative needs (DWM made the MG variations and P08, they certainly were diverted from G98 production early in 1918) they had experience with... naturally they did have the T-Gewehr on line, but the marked declided is exceptional compared to 1917 and there was no "considerations" to explain the lack of obvious activity (labor unrest which hit Spandau and DWM so hard in the latter years, - probably Erfurt also considering the nature of the workforce)/

Anyway, enough of the context, I will work on the historical context in the primary thread... so the question:

WMO/1918 production is quite low by confirmable observations (rifles that have clear serial numbers and are especially low in the latter blocks when the Turkish contract apparently ended, - which seems to be the h-block, though I have found the crescent mark pretty unreliable as a sign of Turkinh service in 1918, and the crescent is only known or apparent on 1918 production.

Broadly speaking, by the e-block the Turkish contract ended, a few follw up to the h-block but quite erratic after the f-block, which is about 60-40, some have clear interwar ot NS service e-i blocks, almost all matter of fact (observations are limited naturally, and as they are the only facts to work with on such a topic, we have to be rather "flexible" on our assumptions...)

WMO/18 first block through the f-block are well populated, patterns are quite consistent, but as the g-block begins the number of confirmed observations plummet... only four rifle in the g-block, two in the h-block, on i-block and about another ten k-t block, but of these not a single one can be ascertained without question... there are several among these to-11 rifles that are intriguing, some showing considerable interwar or NS era work, none are clearly Turk possibilities... several are reports, most of dubious reliability, one q-block shows a clear q-suffix on the barrel but the receiver serial is obscured and it is common for such work to have the wrong suffix interpretation on the replaced barrel, it could easily be a g-block receiver for instance.

So, the nature or purpose of this thread is to see if we can generate some observations of WMO/18 rifles, specifically fro the g-block to the k block (assuming WMO went that high and they probably did), but naturally any WMO/18 at all, but the focus on g-t blocks, also any one that has a solid k-block so I can make comparisons, of the "TEN" (or so) three are either h-blocks or k blocks, but the suffixes are weakly defined in the photographs and there are no other variables too separate them.

*** Anyone with a wartime WMO should consider reporting their rifle to see if I have it recorded, in several cases I have inadequate data on rifles some here own, or owned, this is especially desired for those rifles with factory stocks and bolts where acceptance patterns can be confirmed. ALso those that may have rare stock variations (maple or TPS 2 piece), though my main interest here is determining the range for WMO/18, which formally I held at the t-block, but I have determined that range is not supported (one q, one r, two t blocks are reported or poorly imaged, but none to hang a hat upon)
 
1918/WMO/2589d (Crescent moon above the manufacturer's name.)
 

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Thanks Mike! A new addition, the RR is C/G C/E C/E? I am sure it is as it would be exceptional if not! If the stock is original and the acceptance is clear, try some shots as trends are weak on stock trends because so many Turk's are so worn... I would say more than half are original to the stock, but not one in ten have clear easily defined acceptance to trend.

If you have the time get the barrel code, so far they are very progressive BS 70's through BS 100, advancing as the serial advances. Yours I would guess at the mid-late 80's, early 90's.

No worries if a bother, this is enough for my purposes (assuming RR is as expected, with no C/RC over first acceptance (rare but exist in number)
 
Not a 1918 but still a WMO

1916/WMO/1521u. I'm attaching pictures of the receiver markings, the barrel code, and the bolt root. If you need anything else let me know, I did a full break down a few days ago and got pictures of everything.

The stock isn't original to the gun, although I'm pretty sure it's an arsenal replacement of some kind. SN in the channel and the butt don't match the gun, but it's been numbered to match under the stock.
 

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Not my rifle, but this one is on GB right now. Turkish Contract 1918 WMO Single crescent. Looks like L-block?

More pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jrTdNe4oNUeReBwo6
An e-block in all probability... there are reports of L blocks, but they are probably e-blocks, - nothing after the WMO/18 i-block is fully confirmed, some are certainly possible beyond this, but the g-block is the last with a high population that are confirmable. There is one for sure h-block and three reported k-blocks, none confirmed by solid pictures, but my bet is these are all h-blocks.

Although "reports" and partial detailed rifles suggest a possible progression to the t-block is possible, there are relative few to populate this theory because all are poor pictures, casual reports or in one case, a q-block only shows a barrel serial and it is a WWII era barrel and it is a known fact that such rifles carry errors with suffixes, this could easily be a g-block mistaken for a q-block, but the collector that "shared" the rifle pasted over the receiver serial and one digit of the barrel serial... still it shows that crescent marked receivers often stayed in Germany (about a dozen)

Thanks!
 
Not a 1918 but still a WMO

1916/WMO/1521u. I'm attaching pictures of the receiver markings, the barrel code, and the bolt root. If you need anything else let me know, I did a full break down a few days ago and got pictures of everything.

The stock isn't original to the gun, although I'm pretty sure it's an arsenal replacement of some kind. SN in the channel and the butt don't match the gun, but it's been numbered to match under the stock.

A very nice rifle, damn difficult to find bolt matchers... Cyrus owned this in 2011 and we have much data on it, but it is good to see new pictures of it! He didn't take a lot of pictures of the stock, but as you say the BP was m/m, but if the external serial does match it probably is good. It is typical for stocks and bolt bodies to be minimally marked during the war, essentially just a simple re-numbering of these two critical parts, leaving the remainder with original serial. but nearly anything is possible with wartime reworks, - personally I distrust any rework when the stock isn't serialed (internal or external, - a couple ordnance spares used in restocking have only internal serialing, I had a DWM/15 where this was the case, but external is almost universal and usually legit imo). But, look out when you see a lot of re-serialing or stamps, humpers rarely can restrain the temptation to add something.

** anyone willing to share their WMO do it here or on a new thread, while the purpose here is primarily 1918, especially in regards to rifles after the g-block, fleshing out this maker is very important, especially pre-war (where they made every year, they are damn rare outside of 1906-1907, 1908 none are known, possibly they skipped G98 this year due to foreign contracts, JS would know, but they are rare pre-war outside of 1906-1907. (and apparently 1918 after the g-block!)
 
** anyone willing to share their WMO do it here or on a new thread, while the purpose here is primarily 1918, especially in regards to rifles after the g-block, fleshing out this maker is very important, especially pre-war (where they made every year, they are damn rare outside of 1906-1907, 1908 none are known, possibly they skipped G98 this year due to foreign contracts, JS would know, but they are rare pre-war outside of 1906-1907. (and apparently 1918 after the g-block!)

If you have any interest in commercial proofed (?) Gew98 receivers I posted a thread a bit ago about a 1903 WMO I've got. It was turned into a target rifle in the interwar period, so sadly no barrel markings etc, but the receiver is neat.

 
WMO/03 is a lean year for WMO G98 production, only three known, none exceptional (dogs really). but I only trend military rifles, though I do save reports on WMO commercial, I think I may have saved the rifle you posted but unless it has military proofing and acceptance it won't fit my research direction.

Thanks!
 
Ran into another Turkish. Here's what I believe is an f-block.

Another interesting thing is the Ethiopian contract also seems to be filled with WMO/18 rifles. The 2 pictures are from RTI's website directly and appear to be an a-block. The group of 3 photos shows another 1918 with the Saint George Lion stamp.
 

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This is a really neat rifle, I do not have this one recorded, but I recently noted a WMO/16 (5422/o) with a similar barrel, mismatched serial but the Ethiopian marked barrel.

There is a story here, but these are certainly related to the Ethiopian story, probably the Turkish contract rifles found there way to a number of formally Ottoman Empire countries and trouble states in Africa like Ethiopia, The arms trade after both wars (all wars) is a very interesting topic, between the vast amounts of surplus and unloading of captured/surrendered (after WWI German was forbidden to export any military equipment, eventually this became German enacted law, under Entente pressure, but this was worked around through many countries, the Dutch and Swiss in particular),

Anyway, thanks for keeping your eye out!
 
Grey Blanket just listed this one on Broker. I assume this to be a b-block. Interestingly, the barrel lacks a serial number, which strikes it as odd as the d-block earlier in this thread does have a serial. Possibly re-barreled by the Turks?
 

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Thanks! I haven't seen it yet, but I will check out his listings, - they usually do a good spread and cover all critical aspects (this wasn't always so, in the early 2000's they were just as resourceful in finding special rifles, but took less than 10 lousy pictures, often in montages of dubious value - now they are one of the best); in this case this is certainly a re-barrel with an ordnance spare, this was once the primary interest in the Turk imports, the scavengers among us then sought the ordnance spares, including barrels, and the value these offered in mismatched, but prime parts... back in the late 1990's and early 2000's these could be had for around $100 and they typically had rods which even then were in demand, plus on occasion an armorers bolt body or even a barrel MauserBill re-barreled a WMO/16 (I think) that a collector here once owned and I got from Bill

Anyway, a good number of Imperial ordnance spares you see sold today are from the Turk imports, they were often like new components, never used. Hopefully LR did shots of teh barrle markings,
 
Paul, here is mine 43aa, 1917. BC: BS 15
 

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Great! I needed the BC for this one! Fits the trends pattern, though I do wonder how progressive and how consistent is this BC pattern,,, I suspect it is pretty stable because WMO is such a fine maker... I like the stock on this one, most of the stocks rarities are in 1917, usually in the latter blocks like this one, (WMO/17 went to the cc-block, but all after the bb-block are Spandau host receivers, - really any "German" WMO/17 is pretty rare in upper grades)

** I finished the WMO trends some weeks ago, but trending is never finished, - no matter how many rifles you trend it is not uncommon to find something new or a deviation.
 
Great! I needed the BC for this one! Fits the trends pattern, though I do wonder how progressive and how consistent is this BC pattern,,, I suspect it is pretty stable because WMO is such a fine maker... I like the stock on this one, most of the stocks rarities are in 1917, usually in the latter blocks like this one, (WMO/17 went to the cc-block, but all after the bb-block are Spandau host receivers, - really any "German" WMO/17 is pretty rare in upper grades)

** I finished the WMO trends some weeks ago, but trending is never finished, - no matter how many rifles you trend it is not uncommon to find something new or a deviation.
Thanks Paul it’s my favorite by far. Here are the photos of the BC.
 

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Jon wanted me to post these up.

Bruce, so you can see yourself here are some of the Spandau ordered Turk G 98, Also First sale from daily sales book then Spandau firm page in Running accounts book
 

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