$ Value of a RC transitional "not drilled" stock?

[Mauserguy85]

I picked up a "not drilled for cleaning rod" RC red glue stock a while ago. There is no serial number in the barrel channel only a "dtp" stamp. Absolutely no evidence of sanding out the serial, even wood color all around and even channel. Looking over the kriegsmodell book, it appears all the characteristics are present for it being a DOU stock. Flat area in front of TG, flattened area behind the receiver tang and no proofs on the right side and the sling cutout is just like the photo in the book. Upon removing the shellac (halfway done) with the duct tape method, I noticed that the stock appears to not have been stained, and it looks extremely clean. It came with a unnumbered/unmarked buttplate, unnumbered front stamped band, unnumbered stamped band spring, look wise matching numbered handguard and a speed milled rear band. Solviet serial is stamped on the side and there is a dished area, but definately not serious though. Slight impact damage in front of the triggerguard and no cracks or repairs whatsoever.... Bottom line, the stock is in overall excellent shape and has not been sanded down, as you can feel the roughness as you run your hand down it.

Now the question is, if I were to sell this complete set (not saying I am because it seems like a good piece to hold on to if a project comes along) .... How much should I expect to get out of it? I'm pretty sure that a "not drilled for" dou late war stock that is unnumbered is not something that you see often... In any form.

I posted this on gunboards but have not received too many responses as to value so let's give this a shot here. Thanks for any opinions and estimates.

Now I have received one response in regards to value, but the thinking behind it was that since mario's stocks are around $220, then an RC will be $100-$150. I would have to disagree with those figures because there are exceptions. This was my response to the post.

The Norweigian stocks are pretty much done though, as I have spoken with Mario extensively about it. For example, he's practically out of CE stocks, probably because of me, lol. So expect prices to rise from people reselling. Also, he has no late war stocks so honestly where are you going to find a quality original for lets say a DOU45? Honestly its not going to happen and if someone has an original they will want $600 plus for it, im sure of that...

Seems to me that RC stocks, unfortunately will be the future of resto projects since originals and the Nor's are dried up or practically gone.

BTW, Semi kriegs and kriegs RC stocks cost a fortune nowadays. I sold my semi kriegs on ebay for $255 with all hardware and I've seen some at gunshows for an asking price of $400-$500 and they only include the end cap.... so I would have to think that $150 for my stock is a bit low, since after all it is part of the Kriegsmodell process/transition. I blame Bruce and Mike for this and their top shelf Kriegsmodell book.... lol, the book is excellent, im constantly reading and looking it over.

 

[Winchester Cowboy]

I picked up a "not drilled for cleaning rod" RC red glue stock a while ago. There is no serial number in the barrel channel only a "dtp" stamp. Absolutely no evidence of sanding out the serial, even wood color all around and even channel. Looking over the kriegsmodell book, it appears all the characteristics are present for it being a DOU stock. Flat area in front of TG, flattened area behind the receiver tang and no proofs on the right side and the sling cutout is just like the photo in the book. Upon removing the shellac (halfway done) with the duct tape method, I noticed that the stock appears to not have been stained, and it looks extremely clean. It came with a unnumbered/unmarked buttplate, unnumbered front stamped band, unnumbered stamped band spring, look wise matching numbered handguard and a speed milled rear band. Solviet serial is stamped on the side and there is a dished area, but definately not serious though. Slight impact damage in front of the triggerguard and no cracks or repairs whatsoever.... Bottom line, the stock is in overall excellent shape and has not been sanded down, as you can feel the roughness as you run your hand down it.

Now the question is, if I were to sell this complete set (not saying I am because it seems like a good piece to hold on to if a project comes along) .... How much should I expect to get out of it? I'm pretty sure that a "not drilled for" dou late war stock that is unnumbered is not something that you see often... In any form.

I posted this on gunboards but have not received too many responses as to value so let's give this a shot here. Thanks for any opinions and estimates.

Now I have received one response in regards to value, but the thinking behind it was that since mario's stocks are around $220, then an RC will be $100-$150. I would have to disagree with those figures because there are exceptions. This was my response to the post.

The Norweigian stocks are pretty much done though, as I have spoken with Mario extensively about it. For example, he's practically out of CE stocks, probably because of me, lol. So expect prices to rise from people reselling. Also, he has no late war stocks so honestly where are you going to find a quality original for lets say a DOU45? Honestly its not going to happen and if someone has an original they will want $600 plus for it, im sure of that...

Seems to me that RC stocks, unfortunately will be the future of resto projects since originals and the Nor's are dried up or practically gone.

BTW, Semi kriegs and kriegs RC stocks cost a fortune nowadays. I sold my semi kriegs on ebay for $255 with all hardware and I've seen some at gunshows for an asking price of $400-$500 and they only include the end cap.... so I would have to think that $150 for my stock is a bit low, since after all it is part of the Kriegsmodell process/transition. I blame Bruce and Mike for this and their top shelf Kriegsmodell book.... lol, the book is excellent, im constantly reading and looking it over.

Maybe a little Plastic Wood or Bondo Body Filler would fill in that RC Dished Crater where the Serial Number is. It's still just a RC stock.

 

[mto7464]

put it on ebay and find out.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Maybe a little Plastic Wood or Bondo Body Filler would fill in that RC Dished Crater where the Serial Number is. It's still just a RC stock.

Well, all I can say is that I find your answer which is obviously sarcastic to be part not humorous, part unhelpful and part just plain silly. Not that I intend to start a forum argument here but common....bondo? Be serious please. You might as well say "weld some sheet metal together around the entire buttstock". Anyway.......... Sure an RC stock is an RC k98 stock, but it can be refinished to look decent, it is a WW2 era German made stock still and by chance you can receive a stock that is unattainable by any other means in original German form.

I posted the question... Where will you find an original German k98 DOU45 or another rare late war stock? Mario's norweigian reworks are not available in late war configurations. Original german unmolested stocks are dried up and not really available anyhow. The REALITY is that RC's appear to be the only decent source for a late war stock. There are plenty of highly desirable complete all matching k98 actions that have had their stocks butchered by bubba or whoever else. So what are you supposed to do if you want to restore it to it's wartime configuration? Are you supposed to keep the complete action sitting in a safe until you die waiting for that original late war correct year and manufacturer stock? All because a refinished RC stock is so highly looked down upon by experienced collectors? I mean, it just sounds to be so close minded in a way and kind of "shuts the door" in the face of all but the highest level of k98 collectors. What I mean by the highest level of collectors is the "all matching original" k98 collectors.

First off, I consider myself a Mid to High level collector. I own a few all matching original examples, a few RC's, and many all matching metal stock butchered restorations that are sitting in mario's year and manufacturer correct stocks (my favorite). So again, what does one do when he picks up a late war stock butchered example and realistically only has a correct year and manufacturer RC stock to choose from to complete a resto?

Im going to sway a little off topic as to try to open other viewpoints on RC k98 related matter...Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course on any subject matter. It's can easily be said to me or others... "hey it's a resto, who cares..." or "it's your rifle" or "doesn't really matter". The point I'm trying to make in this paragraph is that anything to do with k98s is very valuable. There are people who were buying RC complete k98s many a year ago for under $150 who said and claimed that these guns will NEVER be collectors items or valuable. Look at those people now and how they are in denial and scared/embarrased to admit they were totally wrong. To this day some of those people still post "close minded" responses directed towards RC k98s or their broken up parts. In today's current and recent market you have common code RC's with only decent bores being SOLD at $375-$400 regularly. While rare receiver code examples are snapped up at higher prices. There are many collectors who have a whole RC k98 collection as well.

Now let's take a look at 8x57 ammo (or whatever you want to call it) to use as a example. A quick list of the most common SURPLUS ammo types that were/are recently available. With emphasis on #1 being the best in regards to quality, value, and current rareness.

1. Portuguese 70's non-corrosive, brass case, reliable, clean, loaded to "hot" german+ specs.
2. Yugo m75 80's-90's sniper ammo, brass case slightly corrosive, reliable, clean, consistent.
3. Yugo 60's-70's mildly corrosive, reliable, some years steel cased
4. Yugo 50's corrosive, brass case, some inconsistency, hard primers so moderately reliable (needs second hit) some split cases reported, fairly clean.

Now, examples 1-3 where once readily available to buy in bulk for cheap prices. This is not the case anymore. When those were available, practically nobody bothered to buy and shoot the yugo 50's ammo. Look at the prices of yugo 50's ammo nowadays when many considered it one of the "lowest quality". Now people are buying it up and shooting it while saying its "great ammo".

Now a quick list in the same common format as above but in regards to k98 stocks.

1. Original unmolested German. No need to say more.
2. Original German "duffle cut" or sanded.
3. Norweigian Rework (Mario's stocks) very light refurb to an original example. Matched parts
4. Russian Capture. heavier, more involved type of refurb and mismatched parts

Now again, this list demonstates as with the ammo that numbers 1-3 are extremely hard to find or drying up. Most definately not readily available. Mario's stocks are almost done, I have confirmed this with quite a few members of gunboards.com who have failed to acquire even common mid war byf stocks from Mario and Mario himself verified that supply is becoming limited. They are not making anymore, bottom line.

Getting back on track, let me add this. Some of the most senior/elite members and posters of gunboards and now members of this forum under the same alias, who have been bashing RC k98 related things where one of the first people to PM me with serious $200 to $225 dollar offers on my white glue laminate unstained unserialed only "dtp" stamped RC complete with unnumbered stamped bands stock that I had posted many months ago on the trader. I will not name names, but they know who they are. Some of these "elite collectors" even said it's for a late war restoration. Very hypocritical IMO when months before that, they were bashing RC stocks like the world's funniest joke. As I stated, the stock was moved to eBay because my reduced asking price of $255 for the complete set was not met.

Now, all I asked for originally in this thread was just some opinions on values on the particular stock I posted. I do not collect RC's. I have two because the price was decent at the time. I can shoot them until my shoulder breaks off and I don't need to worry about them. As time went on, they grew on me though as I became influenced by the intricate, interesting and extensive added history in RC k98s. There will come a point in the near future that Mario's stocks will be completely gone, and the RC stock will be the only realistic option for anyone trying to restore a butchered stock k98. I am positive this will be the case and they will cost much more than $100-150. I can bet money on that. Especially when Bruce/Mike's follow up books stir up much more popularity in the K98.

Hopefully somebody will see read and understand what im getting at here... That RC stocks or RC's in general are not such a terrible thing to be looked down upon and I honestly think (coming from a non-RC collector) that a little more respect should be given. Btw 80% of k98 parts for sale in the USA are off of RCs, with many of them being refinished and passed off as originals. My recent gunshow and auction viewings support my theory.

So I ask for a third time. To those who bash RC stocks... Please tell me where a k98 collector is to find a rare late stock for a rare late war complete action that had it's original stock butchered if not off an RC? And please no silly answers like "go to local gunshops and ask if they have any k98 stocks lying around". That's like saying, go to a corner bodega and buy and fill out a lotto ticket which in turn you will get lucky and win the mega millions jackpot. Can it happen? Sure, but what are the chances....

The stock in my post is most likely for a dou44. According to "kriegsmodell", these "not drilled" stocks were used from the z block to ee block. If my math is correct, that puts it at approximately 60,000 rifles produced with this type of stock which is unserialed btw. So it's hard to believe that it's only worth around $100 bucks like someone suggested. You can't even buy a rguns "whatever they send you" stock at that price since I think their pricing is $110 with $15 flat rate shipping.

 

[Pisgah]

I guess the answer to your question depends on whether the stock has been sanded, particularly around the Russian serial numbers on the left of the butt, and how deep the Russian serial numbers have been struck. If it is unsanded and the numbers are a light strike then it is worth more as it may be able to be restored by the right individual. If a previous RC number has been removed and/or the RC serial numbers are heavily struck, then the stock, even though rare, is worth about as much as any other RC stock. I agree with you that the transitional, unnumbered NDFCR stocks are typically very difficult to find--true whether bnz, dou, or dot. Assuming the stock has a chance to be restored, I would put the value at $250-300. As suggested by mto7464 you could always put it on eBay and see if it pulls more. It seems like such items tend to go for top dollar there.

 

[Winchester Cowboy]

Well, all I can say is that I find your answer which is obviously sarcastic to be part not humorous, part unhelpful and part just plain silly. Not that I intend to start a forum argument here but common....bondo? Be serious please. You might as well say "weld some sheet metal together around the entire buttstock". Anyway.......... Sure an RC stock is an RC k98 stock, but it can be refinished to look decent, it is a WW2 era German made stock still and by chance you can receive a stock that is unattainable by any other means in original German form.

I posted the question... Where will you find an original German k98 DOU45 or another rare late war stock? Mario's norweigian reworks are not available in late war configurations. Original german unmolested stocks are dried up and not really available anyhow. The REALITY is that RC's appear to be the only decent source for a late war stock. There are plenty of highly desirable complete all matching k98 actions that have had their stocks butchered by bubba or whoever else. So what are you supposed to do if you want to restore it to it's wartime configuration? Are you supposed to keep the complete action sitting in a safe until you die waiting for that original late war correct year and manufacturer stock? All because a refinished RC stock is so highly looked down upon by experienced collectors? I mean, it just sounds to be so close minded in a way and kind of "shuts the door" in the face of all but the highest level of k98 collectors. What I mean by the highest level of collectors is the "all matching original" k98 collectors.

First off, I consider myself a Mid to High level collector. I own a few all matching original examples, a few RC's, and many all matching metal stock butchered restorations that are sitting in mario's year and manufacturer correct stocks (my favorite). So again, what does one do when he picks up a late war stock butchered example and realistically only has a correct year and manufacturer RC stock to choose from to complete a resto?

Im going to sway a little off topic as to try to open other viewpoints on RC k98 related matter...Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course on any subject matter. It's can easily be said to me or others... "hey it's a resto, who cares..." or "it's your rifle" or "doesn't really matter". The point I'm trying to make in this paragraph is that anything to do with k98s is very valuable. There are people who were buying RC complete k98s many a year ago for under $150 who said and claimed that these guns will NEVER be collectors items or valuable. Look at those people now and how they are in denial and scared/embarrased to admit they were totally wrong. To this day some of those people still post "close minded" responses directed towards RC k98s or their broken up parts. In today's current and recent market you have common code RC's with only decent bores being SOLD at $375-$400 regularly. While rare receiver code examples are snapped up at higher prices. There are many collectors who have a whole RC k98 collection as well.

Now let's take a look at 8x57 ammo (or whatever you want to call it) to use as a example. A quick list of the most common SURPLUS ammo types that were/are recently available. With emphasis on #1 being the best in regards to quality, value, and current rareness.

1. Portuguese 70's non-corrosive, brass case, reliable, clean, loaded to "hot" german+ specs.
2. Yugo m75 80's-90's sniper ammo, brass case slightly corrosive, reliable, clean, consistent.
3. Yugo 60's-70's mildly corrosive, reliable, some years steel cased
4. Yugo 50's corrosive, brass case, some inconsistency, hard primers so moderately reliable (needs second hit) some split cases reported, fairly clean.

Now, examples 1-3 where once readily available to buy in bulk for cheap prices. This is not the case anymore. When those were available, practically nobody bothered to buy and shoot the yugo 50's ammo. Look at the prices of yugo 50's ammo nowadays when many considered it one of the "lowest quality". Now people are buying it up and shooting it while saying its "great ammo".

Now a quick list in the same common format as above but in regards to k98 stocks.

1. Original unmolested German. No need to say more.
2. Original German "duffle cut" or sanded.
3. Norweigian Rework (Mario's stocks) very light refurb to an original example. Matched parts
4. Russian Capture. heavier, more involved type of refurb and mismatched parts

Now again, this list demonstates as with the ammo that numbers 1-3 are extremely hard to find or drying up. Most definately not readily available. Mario's stocks are almost done, I have confirmed this with quite a few members of gunboards.com who have failed to acquire even common mid war byf stocks from Mario and Mario himself verified that supply is becoming limited. They are not making anymore, bottom line.

Getting back on track, let me add this. Some of the most senior/elite members and posters of gunboards and now members of this forum under the same alias, who have been bashing RC k98 related things where one of the first people to PM me with serious $200 to $225 dollar offers on my white glue laminate unstained unserialed only "dtp" stamped RC complete with unnumbered stamped bands stock that I had posted many months ago on the trader. I will not name names, but they know who they are. Some of these "elite collectors" even said it's for a late war restoration. Very hypocritical IMO when months before that, they were bashing RC stocks like the world's funniest joke. As I stated, the stock was moved to eBay because my reduced asking price of $255 for the complete set was not met.

Now, all I asked for originally in this thread was just some opinions on values on the particular stock I posted. I do not collect RC's. I have two because the price was decent at the time. I can shoot them until my shoulder breaks off and I don't need to worry about them. As time went on, they grew on me though as I became influenced by the intricate, interesting and extensive added history in RC k98s. There will come a point in the near future that Mario's stocks will be completely gone, and the RC stock will be the only realistic option for anyone trying to restore a butchered stock k98. I am positive this will be the case and they will cost much more than $100-150. I can bet money on that. Especially when Bruce/Mike's follow up books stir up much more popularity in the K98.

Hopefully somebody will see read and understand what im getting at here... That RC stocks or RC's in general are not such a terrible thing to be looked down upon and I honestly think (coming from a non-RC collector) that a little more respect should be given. Btw 80% of k98 parts for sale in the USA are off of RCs, with many of them being refinished and passed off as originals. My recent gunshow and auction viewings support my theory.

So I ask for a third time. To those who bash RC stocks... Please tell me where a k98 collector is to find a rare late stock for a rare late war complete action that had it's original stock butchered if not off an RC? And please no silly answers like "go to local gunshops and ask if they have any k98 stocks lying around". That's like saying, go to a corner bodega and buy and fill out a lotto ticket which in turn you will get lucky and win the mega millions jackpot. Can it happen? Sure, but what are the chances....

The stock in my post is most likely for a dou44. According to "kriegsmodell", these "not drilled" stocks were used from the z block to ee block. If my math is correct, that puts it at approximately 60,000 rifles produced with this type of stock which is unserialed btw. So it's hard to believe that it's only worth around $100 bucks like someone suggested. You can't even buy a rguns "whatever they send you" stock at that price since I think their pricing is $110 with $15 flat rate shipping.

After reading your long winded post (about as long as a short novel! lol) maybe you have time to post some pics of the RC stock, then you can find out if it's truly a million dollar stock.

 

[Mauserguy85]

[SUP][/SUP]

After reading your long winded post (about as long as a short novel! lol) maybe you have time to post some pics of the RC stock, then you can find out if it's truly a million dollar stock.

Winchester,
I really do not want to engage in childish behavior with you because I honestly don't have the time to argue with ignorant people who can't see the obvious truth. Since when are long informative posts with examples and statements to back up one's thinking, opinions or reasoning a bad thing? The reason I have time to write a long "novel" of a post is because I am proficienct and quick at typing. I know that backing up ones statements with examples and details is paramount in making a point stand it's ground. Unlike posts by some who just say "I think this because I do".

When have I ever said that I have a million dollar stock? When did I say that I even have a $200, $250 or $300 stock. Let me answer you since you have a problem with answering questions. The answer is never. You instead opt to use BS unhelpful, and sarcastic comments. I only went to state the obvious current events regarding stocks and that a "ndfcr" stock that was built into roughly "60,000" rifles in 1944 only is pretty rare, which is quite obviously true.

Btw, I'm still waiting for the answer that I asked more than 4 times in this thread and I think it would be great if you answered it, since it seems you are avoiding it.

 

[Winchester Cowboy]

[SUP][/SUP]

Winchester,
I really do not want to engage in childish behavior with you because I honestly don't have the time to argue with ignorant people who can't see the obvious truth. Since when are long informative posts with examples and statements to back up one's thinking, opinions or reasoning a bad thing? The reason I have time to write a long "novel" of a post is because I am proficienct and quick at typing. I know that backing up ones statements with examples and details is paramount in making a point stand it's ground. Unlike posts by some who just say "I think this because I do".

When have I ever said that I have a million dollar stock? When did I say that I even have a $200, $250 or $300 stock. Let me answer you since you have a problem with answering questions. The answer is never. You instead opt to use BS unhelpful, and sarcastic comments. I only went to state the obvious current events regarding stocks and that a "ndfcr" stock that was built into roughly "60,000" rifles in 1944 only is pretty rare, which is quite obviously true.

Btw, I'm still waiting for the answer that I asked more than 4 times in this thread and I think it would be great if you answered it, since it seems you are avoiding it.

Well Pilgrim,

Now that you got that off your chest and feel better, the stock still is what it is. It won't be a Retirement Fund unfortunately. It might have been worth more with the shellac left on to an RC Purist. The history of Ivans Rework Job has been forever altered - a modern tragedy. The dished crater will fool no one, nor the removed shellac. Without pics, $50 and up, depending on condition.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Well Pilgrim,

Now that you got that off your chest and feel better, the stock still is what it is. It won't be a Retirement Fund unfortunately. It might have been worth more with the shellac left on to an RC Purist. The history of Ivans Rework Job has been forever altered - a modern tragedy. The dished crater will fool no one, nor the removed shellac. Without pics, $50 and up, depending on condition.

Lmao!! 50 bucks??? When?? 10-15 years ago? Hop on eBay and take a look for yourself the ongoing auctions or recently completed ones. Btw, if you can buy a RC semi KM, transitional, or full KM stock for $50 bucks then please do so. I will gladly buy it off you for $100 and then resell it for $350 like the last eBay one I saw sell months ago. Okay pilgrim?

50 bucks... I still can't stop laughing. Where in this world do you see any k98 complete with hardware stocks at those prices? RC hot dip blued unnumbered bands sell on eBay, gunbroker, trader forums at 30-50 a piece all day long... And good luck buying a stamped unnumbered rear band at anything less than $30 unless somebody doesn't know the market price... Somebody really needs to check the current market prices on k98 related stuff, even repros.

I wish I could post the link to an ongoing eBay auction on a Russian capture walnut 42-43 byf stock with sanded serial handguard. No bands or band spring. Stamped serial on the left. There is over a day left to bid and it's currently over $200 bucks.

 

[Loewe]

MG85, this is a collector site for the Kar98k, not an rc collector site, and while you might get a more enthusiastic appraisal on an rc focused forum, like Gunboards98k, I wouldn't expect a rousing endorsement for the rc here.

I tend to agree with WC, the stock is rc, you can't change that, and refinished is refinished. While rc elitists have passion for the "variation", often approaching the hysterical, to most collectors refinished is refinished, and it doesn't matter who did the refinishing, whether a hunter in the 1960's or a soviet laborer, it will still have very limited value except as a filler or shooter.

Also as WC stated, its appearance matters, even amongst refinished rifles the quality of the work matters. While I would devalue any refinished rifle significantly, I would much prefer one done in a tasteful manner, and it is rare indeed for an rc to have an attractive appearance (original appearance).

Perhaps your stock is an exception, and it might suit a restoration project more than the average rc part, in that case maybe, because of the stocks scarcity and desirability to the latewar crowd, it might have more value.

 

[Mauserguy85]

MG85, this is a collector site for the Kar98k, not an rc collector site, and while you might get a more enthusiastic appraisal on an rc focused forum, like Gunboards98k, I wouldn't expect a rousing endorsement for the rc here.

I tend to agree with WC, the stock is rc, you can't change that, and refinished is refinished. While rc elitists have passion for the "variation", often approaching the hysterical, to most collectors refinished is refinished, and it doesn't matter who did the refinishing, whether a hunter in the 1960's or a soviet laborer, it will still have very limited value except as a filler or shooter.

Also as WC stated, its appearance matters, even amongst refinished rifles the quality of the work matters. While I would devalue any refinished rifle significantly, I would much prefer one done in a tasteful manner, and it is rare indeed for an rc to have an attractive appearance (original appearance).

Perhaps your stock is an exception, and it might suit a restoration project more than the average rc part, in that case maybe, because of the stocks scarcity and desirability to the latewar crowd, it might have more value.

I respect your opinions and even WC's... Of course until the sarcasm and unhelpful comments posted just became too much to respect and take seriously. I definately do not want to be a trouble maker on this forum and arguing in general about a individuals opinions is just a waste of one's life. Opening a can of worms on the whole RC k98k topic is just silly as so many collectors will have completely varying opinions. Having said that, it's a bit sad that it seems like if someone asks a question regarding a less collectable (but still collectable) k98k rifle... They get made fun of, are subjected to sarcasm and are for the most part ignored or unhelped in their quest for an answer.

Just to make a few things crystal clear in case they are not. I never asked anybody here for RC related enthusiasm. I asked a few simple questions that still have not been answered directly and helpfully. I did NOT glorify the RC stock by any means. I asked where does one find an original replacement stock for a rare late war k98 in general and what are the chances? I followed up by asking, if a properly refinished correct year and manufacturer late war RC stock is acceptable for a resto if a original stock is not located after a long time. First and foremost I asked what is an estimate on market value, not what someone that hates RC's would pay for it...

The thing that is so disconcerting is the fact that it seems that I am being treated as some lowly RC collector. I will say again, in case it was missed... I have all matching original k98s, many rare all matching metal butchered stock restos sitting in correct replacement original or Nor. Rework stocks and 2 RC's for fun shooting. Now if im getting the wrong impression here, then I appoligize.... But it seems like that is the general attitude in response to this thread.

This forum is superb, excellent and a joy to be a part of, but if it's experienced members are going to only respect the 100% perfect k98k examples and look down upon and negatively critique any other lower collector grade (bolt MMs, restos, mixmasters, RCs) than I have to say that it's a bit disappointing. It does in turn "shut the door" to up and coming collectors who either don't have "that kind of money" or are hesitant to drop 1.5-2k on an old rifle.

Having said that, according to the "kriegsmodell book" this forum is an "accompany" site to the current book and the upcoming ones. In the book there are several references to RC stocks and matching actions restored with RC stocks. For example the odd size laminate full KM stock that is most likely for a late dou45. Turns out that not only are RCs great for shooting, parting out and collecting by some, but they are also a great source for information to fill in missing serial studies, barrel manufacturers, assembler/manufacturer patterns.... Just wanted to throw that out there in case more folks want to condem the RC as good for absolutely nothing.

 

[mrfarb]

Nobody I know that collects data thinks RC's are useless, that would be shooting yourself in the foot. With that said, I did not read the thread because it's just too long- I will say that NDFCR dot44/dou44 stocks a lot more common than you would think.

 

[Loewe]

How someone else replies to your post is beyond your control, threads are not owned by the originator of the thread, and it is an unfortunate fact that threads often take their own course... many times the original intent of the thread is lost.

While your first post didn't suggest you were an rc enthusiast, as you seemed like a guy just parting out rc's to restore an original rifle. Your second post, was a little more "enthusiastic" about the rc and you took a swipe at collectors who parted them out or have a low opinion of the rc:

There are people who were buying RC complete k98s many a year ago for under $150 who said and claimed that these guns will NEVER be collectors items or valuable. Look at those people now and how they are in denial and scared/embarrased to admit they were totally wrong. To this day some of those people still post "close minded" responses directed towards RC k98s or their broken up parts. .

Seemed a little opinionated to me, as it is a fact an rc, and many mismatched original rifles, are worth more in parts than whole (they just are- and some part them out for this reason) but I still passed it by, as that was a long post, and I didn't want to read it all. It was your revisiting the topic that spurred my post, as I have some crystal clear clarity to share also:

I have about had it with this hobbies version of the "occupy Wall Street" movement, while I can tolerate some level of stupidity, the rc elitist crowd have already highjacked most of the forums I frequent. First they highjacked MSA, then G/K, WA, and now they have polluted Gunboards98k with their populist rhetoric, pissing and moaning over the plight of the rc, and how collectors do not give them their proper due.

Perhaps you are a collector, and I take you at your word that you are, but as your post developed it seemed to me that you were getting a little defensive about the rc, reminding me of numerous exchanges I have had with the rc lunatic fringe.

Lastly, I agree that the rc has value in some trends work, though it is limited due to alterations and lack of original parts. One must take care in placing too much value in what they offer to researchers, but they have a lot of potential if properly used.

Just to make a few things crystal clear in case they are not. I never asked anybody here for RC related enthusiasm. I asked a few simple questions that still have not been answered directly and helpfully.... This forum is superb, excellent and a joy to be a part of, but if it's experienced members are going to only respect the 100% perfect k98k examples and look down upon and negatively critique any other lower collector grade (bolt MMs, restos, mixmasters, RCs) than I have to say that it's a bit disappointing. It does in turn "shut the door" to up and coming collectors who either don't have "that kind of money" or are hesitant to drop 1.5-2k on an old rifle.

 

[Mauserguy85]

You know what? I agree and it's beyond time to give this thread a rest! Mods, you should close this thread and throw away the key! Lol. Basically later in my postings, I was just trying to get a feel for the opinions on values between a 100 dollar bill and 1000 dollar bill. Both still have value and I think owning either of them is a good thing...

I would like also to be a decent chap and appoligize to Winchester Cowboy for my verbal exchanges with him. We both are collectors and we should not be fighting about apples and oranges as they are both fruits and we each have our individual preferences on tastes... So I'm sorry. Also, I would like to add that I am 26 years old and I know it's pretty rare to have a k98 collection as detailed and valuable as mine at that age. I take in more experienced collector's opinions/information like a sponge and completely respect them but unfortunately I'm still somewhat of a young man and sometimes loose my cool a bit and get driven by passion, not clear thinking. I suppose picking ones words more carefully and knowing when to not make a big deal of things comes with age and experience.

And please do not worry, I am not on the RC elitist side, they are fun to shoot, make repro snipers, good for breaking up into parts, info, etc but they just don't feel RIGHT in the hands compared to my all matching or Resto stock all matching metal k98s. I cringe when I see prices of RC's creep up to bolt MM territory and unfortunately I've seen my fair share of that nonsense.

Bottom line, I really like this forum, the books that accompany or will in the future accompany it and it's members. I'm here to make friends, not enemies.... Especially not over a nasty Solviet refinished hot dip blued parts gun of a k98.

 

[Loewe]

Same here, not seeking adversaries, and you seem like a collector with a lot of potential, especially for being so young. You are the type this hobby needs desperately, young men who take research seriously.

I hope you stick around.

Also, I would like to add that I am 26 years old and I know it's pretty rare to have a k98 collection as detailed and valuable as mine at that age. I take in more experienced collector's opinions/information like a sponge and completely respect them but unfortunately I'm still somewhat of a young man and sometimes loose my cool a bit and get driven by passion, not clear thinking. I suppose picking ones words more carefully and knowing when to not make a big deal of things comes with age and experience.

I'm here to make friends, not enemies....

 

[S/42]

PHEW! I am gald y'all kissed and made up, 'cause this one was become a Days of Our Lives special!

RC stocks, regardless of flavour, are $150 tops stocks to me. A NDFCR stock is in the same boat, as generally nobody who buys RC's knows what the NDFCR stock represents! The mileage may vary if a genuine collector needs it to fill a gap. The only higher value RC stocks are the full KM stocks IMHO, and even then, just as place keepers for a restoration.

As to original stocks drying up, I haven't noticed that. Depends where you look I guess! I have bought a superb walnut WaA135 set in the last month, as well as an INCREDIBLE WaA26 walnut complete set (with bands etc matching the stock), which I just sold on our trader here for $250 (a bargain for the stock it is!). Really depends where you look - eBay is NOT the place to look for decent stock sets most of the time, and Gunbroker not usually either (WAY overpriced RC junk for the most part).

Most of my recent finds are coming out of Germany and Denmark (yes, DENMARK, not Norway), and most of the time, pretty darned inexpensive considering their originality and condition. I don't do restorations anymore (if it's not original matching these days, I won't buy it), but I also have this Lost Puppy attitude - if I see decent stocks, I fel compelled to buy them and offer them to fellow collectors, VERY rarely if ever making a profit (usually a LOSS actually, but I like seeing restorations that otherwise would have been neglected or sporterised further)

 

[Mauserguy85]

As I always am truthful to my word. I said I would post after the sale. Definately not trying to "rub salt in someone's wound" but like I suspected.... Even RC stocks are going for big money nowadays.

 

[Pisgah]

As I always am truthful to my word. I said I would post after the sale. Definately not trying to "rub salt in someone's wound" but like I suspected.... Even RC stocks are going for big money nowadays.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/19062848465...OX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1562.l2649#ht_1571wt_922

You beat my estimate by $5. Pretty much what I thought it would bring. Despite being an RC it is not a bad looking example. Biggest detractor on it is the disturbance in the laminate on the left between the takedown disc and the buttplate where the ex-RC number was removed. Despite that it would likely make a good placeholder stock while someone waits for a better non-import NDFCR dou stock.

 

[mag318]

Russian capture stocks can clean up very nicely, here's one that came on this DOU45 I bought from Dennis at Empire, after refinishing it. I'll bet the OPs stock would go for $150/200 to someone needing that stock for a restoration.

 

[ClintJ]

Russian capture stocks can clean up very nicely, here's one that came on this DOU45 I bought from Dennis at Empire, after refinishing it. I'll bet the OPs stock would go for $150/200 to someone needing that stock for a restoration.

That is one sweet RC! The OPs stock went for 300.