Help with ID

NJ2656

Member
New here and looking for some help. This is a family heirloom. My great uncle told me 20+ years ago that he sent it home from Germany in 46. Just recently dug it out of the safe. Don’t know much about them and having trouble nailing down info looking online. It may be a Frankenstein. Think it’s a 1944 BRNO but it has a lot of early parts from what I can tell. I plan on picking up some books to add to the library at the D Day event in OH next weekend.
 

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Frankenstein is correct. It's a put together mess.
Would you care to elaborate? Rifle over looks good to me. Again family story with it so not really interested for value sake. Just want to know more about it. Would assume that the barreled action would be the gunsmith part and the rest could be easily assembled. Why would a rifle have been torn down that far?
 
You need to show more. Its hard to tell what you have. Your stock is an SS depot stock. Is it numbered?
 
You need to show more. It’s hard to tell what you have. Your stock is an SS depot stock. Is it numbered?
I can take more pictures of the overall rifle. The pictures I posted are all of the markings that were visible on the rifle exterior. The SS stamp is on the bottom of the stock between the pistol grip and the toe. The bolt has the oval holes but no markings. It has a plum hue. I have not pulled the butt plate or taken the barreled action out of the stock to check for markings there.
 
I can take more pictures of the overall rifle. The pictures I posted are all of the markings that were visible on the rifle exterior. The SS stamp is on the bottom of the stock between the pistol grip and the toe. The bolt has the oval holes but no markings. It has a plum hue. I have not pulled the butt plate or taken the barreled action out of the stock to check for markings there.
it would help to see markings on the underside of receiver & barrel, as well as any on the wood in the barrel channel & inside the hand guard. There ‘should be’ markings on the bolt particularly around the square part where the handle joins the bolt body. On top, rear face & bottom face.

If we say it’s a ‘dot 44’ it would have a stock w/cupped butt plate & sheet metal bands. The bolt would have round relief holes vs oval, and the rifle sn would likely be on the barrel above the woodline on the left side near the firing proof. (or on the receiver, but unlikely both locations. We can’t see a serial on this one. The front band is from an earlier rifle, but the bayonet lug doesn’t have the flutes matching the upper window of the band, so it’s later style & contrasts with the flat butt plate.The rear sight base looks like its brass plated (unlikely) & carries subcontractor marks on the right, but thats unusual for a dot rifle, common on bcds. The trigger guard would likely have been stamped, w/stamped floor plate either e/214 or e/135 marked. Milled floor plates continued to be mixed in, its unusual that this pair is completely unmarked. in the photo of the rear sight blade, I can see that the hand guard is narrower than the stock, so it may not be the original.

those are things that might make this a frankenmauser, but as @RyanE pointed out the death’s head marking, & didn’t call it fake, I suspect he feels this is something more. The Heer was jealous of the power of the SS, & did what they could to obstruct their access to weapons. SO, the SS had to make separate contracts with makers or build their own from often recycled or rejected parts. If the rifle is one of those, it is unusual & notable.

If sent home in ‘46, it may also be a “cigarette rifle”, assembled post war from available parts, the GI paid the builder with American cigarettes, which were a valuable & very tradable ‘currency’ in post war Germany.

I noticed that the barrel shoulder isn’t fully up against the receiver, I don’t think it was used like that.

looking forward to more pics!
 
it would help to see markings on the underside of receiver & barrel, as well as any on the wood in the barrel channel & inside the hand guard. There ‘should be’ markings on the bolt particularly around the square part where the handle joins the bolt body. On top, rear face & bottom face.

If we say it’s a ‘dot 44’ it would have a stock w/cupped butt plate & sheet metal bands. The bolt would have round relief holes vs oval, and the rifle sn would likely be on the barrel above the woodline on the left side near the firing proof. (or on the receiver, but unlikely both locations. We can’t see a serial on this one. The front band is from an earlier rifle, but the bayonet lug doesn’t have the flutes matching the upper window of the band, so it’s later style & contrasts with the flat butt plate.The rear sight base looks like its brass plated (unlikely) & carries subcontractor marks on the right, but thats unusual for a dot rifle, common on bcds. The trigger guard would likely have been stamped, w/stamped floor plate either e/214 or e/135 marked. Milled floor plates continued to be mixed in, its unusual that this pair is completely unmarked. in the photo of the rear sight blade, I can see that the hand guard is narrower than the stock, so it may not be the original.

those are things that might make this a frankenmauser, but as @RyanE pointed out the death’s head marking, & didn’t call it fake, I suspect he feels this is something more. The Heer was jealous of the power of the SS, & did what they could to obstruct their access to weapons. SO, the SS had to make separate contracts with makers or build their own from often recycled or rejected parts. If the rifle is one of those, it is unusual & notable.

If sent home in ‘46, it may also be a “cigarette rifle”, assembled post war from available parts, the GI paid the builder with American cigarettes, which were a valuable & very tradable ‘currency’ in post war Germany.

I noticed that the barrel shoulder isn’t fully up against the receiver, I don’t think it was used like that.

looking forward to more pics!
Hopefully get more pictures tomorrow. The rear sight base looks to me as tarnished bare metal almost like a bronze wash. In the picture of the butt plate it looks like it doesn’t quite fit right but not like it was fit with a cap type before. There were no markings on the bolt anywhere that I could find. @RyanE I assume based on what’s been written the more you speak of is pictures of the barrel channel, bottom of the barreled action and end of the stock. If not could you please tell me.
 
Apologies for my previous post. Rough evening.
Definitely looking forward to seeing more pictures!
 
Hopefully get more pictures tomorrow. The rear sight base looks to me as tarnished bare metal almost like a bronze wash. In the picture of the butt plate it looks like it doesn’t quite fit right but not like it was fit with a cap type before. There were no markings on the bolt anywhere that I could find. @RyanE I assume based on what’s been written the more you speak of is pictures of the barrel channel, bottom of the barreled action and end of the stock. If not could you please tell me.

It would be interesting to know any and all markings on the stock. Inside and outside.

It does seem to be something assembled from random spare and salvaged parts. Barrel isn't fully screwed in, unfinished rear sight tube, etc. Could very well be some sort of GI put together from depot parts bins, or just someone's garage project. The SS stock is worth saving even if nothing else is.

Obviously, do not shoot this. That barrel is not screwed in properly and is unsafe.
 
It would be interesting to know any and all markings on the stock. Inside and outside.

It does seem to be something assembled from random spare and salvaged parts. Barrel isn't fully screwed in, unfinished rear sight tube, etc. Could very well be some sort of GI put together from depot parts bins, or just someone's garage project. The SS stock is worth saving even if nothing else is.

Obviously, do not shoot this. That barrel is not screwed in properly and is unsafe.
Ok, thanks for the information. I guess a trip to a good gunsmith needs added to the to do list then. Hopefully it’s something that can be rectified. I should have more pictures by the end of the day.
 
Well, here’s some. Had a bit of a mishap though. Forward sling mount broke. The tab just snapped off as I was pulling it. I’ll load a pic of it in the next batch. Only marking on the stock was under the butt plate.
 

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What would be the last photo is the bolt release. Couldn’t get the magazine floor plate plate pin to push. Beat up cross pin in there. No markings on it other than the screw heads.
 

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Found one more on the right side of the barrel just in front of the rear sight
 

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Honestly, not sure a ‘smith will be able to help, and the books won’t either help explain this rifle. The books are textbooks explaining textbook guns. Rather, ask questions here for solid info.
 
The stock is definitely very interesting and desirable. I wouldn’t be surprised if you end up getting some PM offers for it. The rest is either a “GI cigarette rifle” (as mentioned) or a post-war put together IMO. Worse case, it’s a gunsmith special put together out of loose parts. It does appear to have quite a few desirable armorer/unnumbered parts like the JP Sauer front band, etc. Weird…. a lot of unnumbered parts on it and usually domestically and recently you don’t see that too often. Do you have pics of the top and bottom of the bolt root flat (where the handle meets the body? Any firing proof (Eagle) on the back of the bolt root?
 
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Taking it to a gunsmith would only be to see if the barrel can be installed correctly so it can be shot. I’ll never sell it or any part of it but I would really like to be able to shoot it. Even just once.
 
I think there is a decent chance your great uncle picked up a parts gun put together from parts at the SS equipment depot in Dachau. Any idea what unit he served in? Lots of rifles were built, traded, and brought home well after the war ended, but it would be interesting to know.

That stock is an untouched and unused SS depot stock. It is rare and valuable. The rest is--no offense--a collection of junk. Little to no value. If the bolt is an unusued armorer's bolt, it also has value.

Taking this action to a gunsmith would IMO be a waste of your money. It would require a lot of work, and the gunsmith will probably want to reblue it. IMO, you just appreciate it as is, an interesting GI junk gun. If you want to make a project of this, please consider passing that stock on to an SS collector. It should be saved, and would probably pay your gunsmith bills and for a replacement stock.
 
If you wanted to send it to me just for a safety check, I would be happy to do that for a nominal fee.

As the stock is worth something, I would recommend buying a cheap (er) stock for something to shoot it in.
 
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