1924 Simson & Co. GEW 98
- Thread starter AV8R525
- Start date
That is my thoughts as well, not period, but perhaps Wolfgang can offer an opinion.
The rifle itself is very rare, the rarest of Kar.98b made, this rifle extends the range of known rifles considerably, but there is still a gap between this 1700 range rifle and the earliest 1925 (2500 range). If this rifle hadn't been sporterized, it would have rivaled DD example, the finest known I believe. Mine is largely mismatched unfortunately, but I am just glad to own it, as so few have been recorded.
I think this rifle has a lot of potential still, worth a restoration due to its rarity, but someone really chopped 75% of the value off the rifle, at least, with altering the stock and adapting a scope to it.
I will link Wolfgang to this thread, but you (OP) might consider duplicating this thread in the sniper section of this forum. That forum has a very knowledgeable collector there, a friend of Wolfgang's and between the two would know.
The rifle itself is very rare, the rarest of Kar.98b made, this rifle extends the range of known rifles considerably, but there is still a gap between this 1700 range rifle and the earliest 1925 (2500 range). If this rifle hadn't been sporterized, it would have rivaled DD example, the finest known I believe. Mine is largely mismatched unfortunately, but I am just glad to own it, as so few have been recorded.
I think this rifle has a lot of potential still, worth a restoration due to its rarity, but someone really chopped 75% of the value off the rifle, at least, with altering the stock and adapting a scope to it.
I will link Wolfgang to this thread, but you (OP) might consider duplicating this thread in the sniper section of this forum. That forum has a very knowledgeable collector there, a friend of Wolfgang's and between the two would know.
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What you have is a K98b not a Gew98. A very very rare rifle especially in matching condition, but sadly someone turned yours into a deer rifle after the war. It is hard to look at! Like M99, I doubt very much the mounts are period.
Can you take a shot of the other side of the receiver where the proofs are?
Can you take a shot of the other side of the receiver where the proofs are?
It wont let me upload additional photos, says I'm over my file limit when I attempt. Happy to email you directly what I have, just send me a note to jhall@jetav.com.
Additional high resolution photos
Here's a link to high resolution photos I uploaded to my SmugMug accoount:
http://premierjet.smugmug.com/Military/1924-Simson/27013301_pp739Q#!i=2265058704&k=ZwbdXHk
Here's a link to high resolution photos I uploaded to my SmugMug accoount:
http://premierjet.smugmug.com/Military/1924-Simson/27013301_pp739Q#!i=2265058704&k=ZwbdXHk
I have uploaded your right receiver pics here for posterity. I hope you do not mind.
There are several side rail variations with the 98b. Gew98 was one of the them.
There are several side rail variations with the 98b. Gew98 was one of the them.
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My own feeling is you are technically correct, as the Karabiner 98b nomenclature had not been "adopted" (I use that word loosely) when this rifle was manufactured (happened later in 1925). Still, any rifle made by Simson and dated we call a 98b. This rifle is very rare, and worth restoring properly.
By the way, what is the serial number on the front scope ring, on the side? Looks like a High Turret scope and rings!
Bigdibbs88
"Ach du lieber!"
Do we havr any clue how many of these were made?
Do you mean total Simson 98b production or just 1924? In the book I estimated about 1000-1500 in 1924 (this one raises that number a bit), and by serial extensions it's estimated there were a total of 58000 made. The 98b rifles go up to the late f block. The last of the 98b's were marked Mod.98 on the siderail!
Not at all, fell free to post any of the photos from SmugMug.
http://premierjet.smugmug.com/Military/1924-Simson/27013301_pp739Q#!i=2265058704&k=ZwbdXHk
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Scope serial is 50265, serial in the forward scope ring is 40274. Any idea on the vintage of the scope? Would like to figure out when the rifle might have been modified, I would assume this took place while it was still in Germany. I have owned it for 36 years and was told it was a WWII battlefield acquisition by the Grandfather of the friend I bought it from.
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Bigdibbs88
"Ach du lieber!"
Scope is from a late wwii high turret. I think maybe someone modified some high turret bases and pit it on the rifle? Certainly not a military conversion imho. I think the rifle was drilled, tapped and scoped post war.
I agree that while technically correct, that the Kar.98b designation wasn't authorized until late 1925, these are still Kar.98b because they have the characteristics that differentiate them from the Gewehr98. (side sling arrangement & bent bolt modifications)
Just for clarity on the designations, as per Sturmgewehr, the Kar.98b was originally designated as the Gewehr 98 für Berittene or riders (Cavalry) in May 1924 when production was authorized, later in November 1925 it became the Kar.98b, -this is also when the Modell98 Karabiner (short rifle) became the Kar.98a.
While the designation authorization date to late 1925 the actual SR change doesn't occur until well into 1926 production, when it first goes blank, then picks up Karab.98b around the mid-late "a" blocks (probably 1926 production but by then the dating of receivers drops).
Just for clarity on the designations, as per Sturmgewehr, the Kar.98b was originally designated as the Gewehr 98 für Berittene or riders (Cavalry) in May 1924 when production was authorized, later in November 1925 it became the Kar.98b, -this is also when the Modell98 Karabiner (short rifle) became the Kar.98a.
While the designation authorization date to late 1925 the actual SR change doesn't occur until well into 1926 production, when it first goes blank, then picks up Karab.98b around the mid-late "a" blocks (probably 1926 production but by then the dating of receivers drops).
