Mauser & Commission Sporting/Commercial Rifles Marketed w/ .315" Bullets?

[Cyrano4747]

For example, part of the issue with all of this is confusion. What rifle, what barrel, what era of manufacture, etc. Just having solid pictures of the relevant markings to show what the gun is and a good slug that provides data on groove and lands would go a huge way to pretty definitively establish the trends that you gesture towards so much. Make a thread out of it, turn it into a study. Get others to provide their data. This isn't an unknowable thing, or an intractable problem. And sitting on as many rifles as you are you're incredibly well positioned to lead the charge on it and pretty authoritatively establish specifically what's going on.

 

[AndyB]

Problem by czechoslovak barells is that the Z in circle was used even by polish Zbrojownia same as on mexican rifles made by Armory. So question is in reality Your believed czechoslovak barells are really czechoslovak origin ?, thats the point why i asked the pictures, because when the new barells were delivered there should be CS fireproof.
Is possible that Poland got some of the Gew88 rifles from area of previous german terittory that was given post 1920 to new Poland, and some of the bayonets are too marked G88 on pommel. So the polish did have used certainly a larger bunch of G88 in their inventory as it had even CSR.
"That is the reason S&B and Privi use the incorrect terms for their ammo , their ammo society ."
About designation of ammo, that is a european ammo so when there is a standardisation organ as CIP and it declared it so post 1930, its correct done as the rules for designation were destined by central buro and on ammoboxes of the producers is the CIP logo stamped, that they accept the designations .
As mentioned by Your large collection of G88 should be not problem present a piece of turkish G88/05 or G88/14 with czechoslovak barells and it would certainly helped a lot for the clarification.

 

[AndyB]

To Czarkowski ."So the Equador Gewehr 88s may not have come from Czechoslovakia? Czechoslovakia only sent them the barrels? To clarify, I know all the rifles were German made, I mean the rifles themselves may not have been sent to South America by the Czechs."
No the Equador rifles certainly didnt go from Czechoslovakia, easy way because they never had 15000 rifles G88, they only produced 15000 spare barells G88 for Equador, because of other contracts with Equador to sign with in later period - Vz24 rifles, lMG, ammo, these barells were unimportant in complete bunch .
G88 could be made even by Austrians for civilian market, i dont know from what country got the Equadorians the rifles G88, maybe from Italy, Austria, Poland, or Belgium ?
"Another question I'd like to pose - Does anyone know the reason why the German sporting/hunting rifles were chambered for .315 caliber bullets in the first place? Someone once told me it was because of the Treaty of Versailles, but I haven't found any evidence of that."
When You read the link with the discussion about standardisation of ammo for civilian market in 1909 that i added on previous answer, there is certainly answered that it has no link with 1919 period and WW1

 

[ernie8]

The point is posting photos on the internet proves nothing . I have shared the data . Look back at my posts on shooting where people needed help and the answers I gave them fixed all of their problems . I have disproven many of the myths on German military Gew-88 rifles , like .318 bores , riveted guides , what the notch was for , what the
S means , S is not a bore size , what a Gew-88 S is and so on . So I have shared a lot . I have shot all 2000 + examples of my military rifle collection , all countries from 1850 to 1970 . To make them shoot well I have to slug the bores so I can make the best ammo . I ran a military rifle match at my range every weekend for about 20 years with many different shooters and their rifles , another large source of data . A friend who has a larger collection and I recorded the shooting and load data in a 500 page reloading manual for military rifles , 1000's of rifles test fired and 10's of 1000's of loads and targets . I have a ballistics lab to test my loads , I build custom rifles , I develop wildcat loads , so I can measure things and understand how bullets work in a rifle . To other questions . The German .315 civilian rifles where made that way before the treaty . Their is no real clear answer on where Some of the Gew-88 rifles came from after the war as there was a lot of stuff going on under the table . But the Czechs did end up with some , the Germans even listed them as inventory when the took over From the Czechs pre WWII . I have a rifle that was proven to have come out of the 3rd army Czech occupation in May 1945 . The post war Czech nation was made from A-H controlled area . There were many Gew-88 rifles in A-H army use in WWI . The Czechs did get Gew-88 parts at least from Germany post WWI and did sell them to the Turks . I have a few CZ marked bolts where you can see the remains old German proofs . I do not do photos and would not post any showing rifles if I did . So if my data helps people shoot their old rifles , that is fine . If it helps them to understand markings and they find that my data matches their rifle that is fine . If they want to not even check things that are easy to check , and then not believe that is up to them . But they should not tell people bad info about how to shoot their rifles . The Germans used the incorrect JS proof loads [ sS .323 ammo in .3208 bores ] to proof the Gew-88 rifles that came back into Germany as they thought the S on the Gew-88's meant what was called JS . The Gew-88 was never meant to fire sS ammo as it is different from S ammo . They broke rifles . So that is why it is important to know there were 4 different MAIN types of German 8mm ammo and 4 different bore sizes , NOT two J and JS .

 

[Cyrano4747]

But you haven't shared the data. You've just shared your assertions based on observations you say you've made without any supporting evidence, and in the past when people have gone to the trouble of doing things like cutting apart a Gew88 some of your assertions have been shown to be incorrect.

Posting photos on the internet absolutely can contribute some good information for everyone else to look at and pour over. For example:

PSo question is in reality Your believed czechoslovak barells are really czechoslovak origin ?, thats the point why i asked the pictures, because when the new barells were delivered there should be CS fireproof.

This is a pretty easy claim to prove. Post a picture of the barrel, let everyone look at the fire proofs and other markings, and from there it's trivial for you and others who own rifles with similar barrels to do any needed measurements etc. This is some really basic internet forum collaborative research project stuff - this place alone is full of threads of people doing this, and if you branch out elsewhere it's as common as can be. Take a picture, post it, and the conversation moves on from there.

Best case we have a definitive answer to these issues that can be referenced and sourced by others, something that we as a community of collectors can continue building on.

 

[AndyB]

So end answer to Your mentioning:
"But the Czechs did end up with some , the Germans even listed them as inventory when the took over From the Czechs pre WWII . I have a rifle that was proven to have come out of the 3rd army Czech occupation in May 1945 ."
Mixing of period is here, the germans didnt listed large number of G88 prewar and they were not interested in this modell only in Vz24 rifles as its the nearest design as K98k rifle, but anyway post 1945 there could be G88 on area of Protektorat mainly in Sudetenland as the Volksturm was equiped with obsolete rifles bringed from Germany. Dont forget the Sudetenland was already part of Germany since 1938.

"The post war Czech nation was made from A-H controlled area . There were many Gew-88 rifles in A-H army use in WWI ."
The area of Czechia and Slovakia was cleaned from arms mainly by german natives in period of 1918/19 to made more dificult to get new guns by czechs and slovaks, anyway there are exact numbers reported of Gew.88 avialable in 1918/19 in CSR as there was done a complete inventory, it was numbers complete with other rifles type of M14 and M93/13, which was under 5000 pcs, from this are the G88 in max range of 2000 samples also uninteressant numbers. There was full discussion about this some months ago

Steyr 1890

Real nice one , I've just got my first also , 1890 Amberg, I like the condition of yours , very nice

www.k98kforum.com

"The Czechs did get Gew-88 parts at least from Germany post WWI and did sell them to the Turks ."
That is a non real thing, the bolts were made as new production, and so it was send to Turkey. CS got parts from Oberndorf factory for new production of Gew.98, that is clear no one was interested in G.88 production as it was obsolete 30 years old gun. Not usable for any military service in that period.

"I have a few CZ marked bolts where you can see the remains old German proofs ."
What it means - it were clearly missmatched, which is normal by Turkish rifles! The origin CS G88 bolts should have complet serialing - bolts with parts all serialed by arabic digits prior 1928, and proofed with half moon (small parts with 2 last digits as visible on added picture). In 1926 ZB delivered to Turkey 100000 new G88 bolts, which were complete matching with new arabic serialing.
The here in forum presented bolt, i use for clear presenting of what should look parts on the new bolt and how it were serialed and proofed. SN 69473 on all smaller parts with 2 last digits, similar way were delivered the new CS production bolts.

 

[AndyB]

There exist 4 type of CS Z in circle marking, large, medium, small and striked one. The Z in circle is here presented on polish rifle for Zbrojovnia and on Mexican M1910 bayonet (even not good detailed picture), are You so good expert of CS items ,that You could identify which stamp was on the barell? Barells could be delivered by polish or even by Mexican armory. There were no G88/05 or G88/14 in austrian or CS inventory. Germans sold or given the major numbers of these rifles already 1917/8 to Turkey as it were declared as obsolete, and enough Gew.98 could be produced for military needs. There are exact reports how many went to Turkey in Goetz and in Stoerz, which are based on real archive datas. They could be reworked by any gunsmith in last 100 years. Is not problem to change any barell on any gun. But when You have so one, please present it here and experts on G88 could made they own opinion about the presented sample.