Rare Frog

I'm not really a fan of it? And I collect late war stuff. The aging looks odd.


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I have known of about six to eight of these over the years. The frog is Carter #319. He describes the frog accurately as to construction, etc. but offered no conjecture other than it being a late WW2 German variant. More often than not they exhibit a construction with some components made of recycled leather scraps. It is somewhat reminiscent of the M42 "short" frog but appears to have a slightly longer body/belt loop. The examples pictured are typical and always seem to show use and are unattributed. Don't think I have ever seen one with a cross-strap intact but Carter #320 shows one. My suspicion is this frog may not have been specifically for the S84/98 T3, but for some other (possibly longer) pattern bayonet with "tear-drop" type frog stud. This is just a hunch I have with no evidence to back it up. However, if someone told me these came out of Yugoslavia for example, I would not be surprised. Still, a rare variant but one I don't own...although I did have an example with the belt loop torn apart at the top, which I let another collector have whom wanted it more than I.
 
Looks to me like German conversion of Yugo 24 frog possibly from what I can see bear in mind towards end of war Germans were using all material and leather scraps I even seen Italian ones converted to fit German model I would vote Balkan original home of that one. timothy
 
The frog as mentioned by some collectors, is most real a old leather parts assembly, the using of captured yugo M24 bayonets inside is possible, but the yugoslavian authors book material dont speak similar pieces as Yugoslavian material, the rivets and construction speaks more for a german product, possible by a camp or small leather working shop and not destined for norma Wehrmacht units probably.b.r.Andy
 
Looks to me like German conversion of Yugo 24 frog possibly from what I can see bear in mind towards end of war Germans were using all material and leather scraps I even seen Italian ones converted to fit German model I would vote Balkan original home of that one. timothy

AndyB said:
The frog as mentioned by some collectors, is most real a old leather parts assembly, the using of captured Yugo M24 bayonets inside is possible, but the Yugoslavian authors book material don't speak similar pieces as Yugoslavian material, the rivets and construction speaks more for a German product, possible by a camp or small leather working shop and not destined for normal Wehrmacht units probably.b.r.Andy
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I think both appraisals are excellent observations and have merit. The closest German frog in comparison is the M42 short model, which is perhaps the most simple of German leather frogs made during WW2. The "skeleton" frog, by comparison, is more complex in construction. I also noted the stitching is not two separate lines as is typical with the M42 pattern, but forms a "M" at the top. This is similar to the inverted triangle of stitching seen on many Yugoslavian M24 pattern frogs. The frog could be a conversion of an existing or damaged frog (or re-utilization of some parts) done under German occupation, for auxiliary forces.
 
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There is few points that will means for me directing to german
- use of older belt leather material
-use of doubble backside material, never saw a yugo frog that ended backside down all were backside ended by triangle stitch,
-the securing strap in normal height and normal german button
-small rivets are typical from M42 frog, never saw similar on yugoslavian products
-stitching are long not short triangle and hold both sides together,
-should be compared the pouch dimension for belt, and bayonet.
-yugoslavians do have a securing strap direct above a bayonet pouch, secured with brass rivets and brass button
-the strong configuration was realised as no enough wide leather material avialable, so the loop bayonet must be done with partially cuted leather
b.r.Andy
On russian forum was presented similar piece, which is evidently done from belts and have a crown 94 stamp in middle part, this speaks for norway /danish area leather capturing.
 

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Very interesting, Andy. It seems probable the pattern of frog was influenced by the Germans, but not necessarily used by their forces. The "crown 94" stamp is the first evidence of any marking I have heard of, turning up on one of these. Based on the construction, and material used, my guess would be the "crown 94" was already on the leather when it was modified for use as part of the frog. It also would be possible that leather could have ended up far from where it originated, too. This frog may remain an enigma to collectors and one which we may never be able to solve...
 
Sleepwalker a expert on frogs and bayonets on german forum, declared it as german equipment of older spare parts, yes the material could be used from captured leather equipment, i saw one of finnland M27 bayonet, could be it was used in area of north Europe, anyway many were found with S84/98 attached.b.r.Andy
 
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