VZ 24 German use questions

M

mauserdad

Active member
I know about the blued receivers,bolts and the the plugged stock. My questons are about the Germans numbering some parts. What parts were typically numbered? Where exactly were they marked on the part? What parts would show the entire serial number digits and what parts with the last two digits? Any other distinguishing details of German use? Were they marked at a local level or at a major armory? Thanks. Ed
 
vz24

we this topic has been brought up before. There are some vz and 24t rifles numbered in the german meathod. Some are suspect and some are correct. It's a case by case basis as far as i'm concerned. The font must be i typical of the german type. Rounded non-metric height type numbering must be highly avoided.
 
mauserdad said:
Thank you Sir. Ed
Click to expand...

Ed/Mauserdad:

Welcome to the forum! Good to see you here.

Ditto what M99 states. Ultimately we would need to see pictures to be sure. One thing that I've noticed that adds to the confusion is if a vz23/24 conversion is later modified by the Germans and the original Czech numbering survives. My understanding is that the vast majority of vz24's had no German mods at all. They were just accepted into German service and issued.
 
Thank you Sir. I have posted this question on other boards. I was unable to find significant information from my old KCN publications. I am trying to compile info. A big favor would be if someone could post pictures of markings. Thank you for the welcome aboard. Ed
 
What 337 posted Ed. I think I posted the same at GB at about the same time. That post repeated below, which is about the same as what is above:

Ed, I've got about five Vz.24 German mods. All are a little different. Most are not facility/depo inspected for the rework. The common element is as you noted, blued bolt, plugged side swivel. They tend to follow a progression too, with the later being cut for a K98k sliing, with a takedown disc. I've found some of them will have numbered bands and floorplates/tg units, electro pencilled serials on the safety. The Czechs made a great product in the Vz.24 and the reason the parts were not numbered is because their quality control assured interchangeability in parts. The Germans didn't number parts because they were "anal", the had to because the parts were handfitted. Note that the Vz.23 had numbered parts and many of these were converted/updated to Vz.24, then the Germans modified those. So, sometimes the numbered parts may be Czech, Vz.23, not German. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
HB ​
 
Nothing I can add to what these guys have said. Just that there is a lot of variation.

I especially agree with 3371940 in that the vast majority were just straight up Vz.24s that got put into service without modification.

I was always fascinated with the progression from Vz.24 to G24(t) over time. I had more than a couple over the years, late G.24(t) were always my favorite of the lineup.

Jeff
 
ditch68 said:
I especially agree with 3371940 in that the vast majority were just straight up Vz.24s that got put into service without modification.
Jeff
Click to expand...

We see early period pic evidence of that, particularly early training and the campaign in France in 1940. I'd reckon that those rifles got worn out or after those dates they were rehabbed and modified. I believe I recall that the orders with the suggested modifications are after that. I believe it is harder to find a straight up Vz.24, unmodified, than a German modified, because of that. Vz.24s were in Czech use and captured and used by the Germans or satellites; sold to the Chinese/Jap.s; sold/provided to Rumania; sold/provided to Latvia/Lithuania. The majority of the UNmodified Vz.24s I see for sale are P prefix / 1937 date sold to the Chinese/Jap.s.

BTW, we have a thread devoted to Vz.24 period pics in the Pic Reference post, always a good place to start. Add pics if you have em:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?398-Period-Pics-Vz.24-and-G.24(t)-in-use

Also, here is a P prefix 1937 date that is E Lion 38 inspected, showing it went into Czech military stores, then likely went back out again to the Japanese (it has Jap. Navy unit type markings painted on stock). This would have been one of those that went out in 1939 more than likely. Andy has provided good info on this:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?1945-Jap-Contract-VZ24-for-Czech-Army-use
 
Last edited:
Hambone I have read where SS units might have used VZ24's. I assume they did not mark them? Did regular German Army units use them also? What happened to the Czech. Army? Did it disband or get absorbed into the German Army? Thanks. Ed
 
I think Craig made the important distinction here, that 1925 or so Brno upgraded to modern machinery and that this allowed for fully interchangeable manufacture. That the inconsistencies in German numbering-modifications you see are a result of this high level of interchangeability and the fact different depots and armorers (and times) were involved. It simply wasn't necessary in general and John and I have discussed this and he acknowledges these rifles generally have few issues with swapping parts.
Not so on German rifles, and it isn't a "quality" issue, the Germans were fully capable of this technology, as they were world leaders in such things along with Great Britain and the United States at the time. (they did hit a road bump due to losing the war but Ludw. Loewe made world headlines, in machinist circles, with their Huttenstraße facility which was state of the art, with no comparison in scale either in Great Britain or the United States at the turn of the last century)

Anyway, I think key to any German work is the depot markings, if they have them it greatly enhances authenticity. It certainly is not required though, but what is typical is best described by CB in 2003 postings. His observations, as they typically are, give the best insight as few have more hands on experience:


Additional indicators:
Where the stock has been modified for a German side-sling the bottom swivels are usually removed. In the case of the butt swivel, the mounting plate may have the swivel machined off or the whole unit may have been removed and the resulting hole plugged.
Followers may be blued and have a shoulder.
Serial numbers on secondary parts may be stamped, electropencilled, or a combination of the two.
Front sights may be grooved for and fitted with a sight hood.
Original Czech sight protectors may have the lion filed off.
The varieties are almost endless; I accumulated something like 7 or 8 before I quit.
The oddest one I've seen has a German pressure proof on the receiver, front bottom swivel removed,
butt swivel removed but plate left in place, German butt washer added, bolt blued, blued follower with shoulder, mixed stamped and eletropencilled numbers, wrist swivel removed and the hole plugged with what appears to be a Polish recoil bolt (!) and a butt swivel set into the side of the stock instead of the usual German sling slot. This is a bring-back, complete with barracks bag cut between the two bands...


Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 10/30/2003 09:09:40 AM


11-29-2007, 08:48 PM
Wapruf2
Member Join Date: Jan 1970
Posts: 78

Doesn't look good to me. Generally speaking "foreign" weapons which went thru a German rehab/inspection got an eagle/swastika/ Wa or HzA number on the underside of the stock somewhere between the rear of the triggerguard and the butt.
Vz 24s in German service are a bit tricky since the Germans accepted Czech proofing and some modifications are subtle. Characteristics of German-used Vz 24s are as follows; they can occur in all sorts of combinations and you could make a collection of nothing but them:

Wrist swivel removed and hole plugged*
German firing pin disassembly washer fitted to butt
German sling slot added to butt
SNs added to components German-style a)stamped b)electropencilled (but not in combination that I know of)
Receivers and all bolt components blued
Follower with shoulder
German firing proof on receiver (and/or barrel?)
Bottom butt swivel removed and hole plugged
Bottom butt swivel loop removed and base ground flat and blued
Bottom front swivel removed
Front sight base slotted for hood and K98k hood fitted

In some cases the Germans renumbered the bolts; the old Czech SN was defaced and the new SN applied across the bolt root, reading from the left side of the rifle, German style.

*Commonly with a wood plug, but I know of one where a Polish (?) recoil bolt was used.


Last edited by Wapruf2 : 11-29-2007 at 08:55 PM.
 
Thank you Sir for the welcome. I have been active on the other forums for years and just recently found this one. It would be interesting to know if there are any other old KCN members here. I still have Mr Law's first book signed by him and offered to the early members of KCN. I often wonder what happened to members like Chris Cox,Robert Jensen,Hugh Brock,etc.. Well so much for the old days. When I receive my rifle I will post it with PICs so you Gents can evaluate it for good or bad. I am not going to lose to much sleep about it. I won it on auction for $178. That is an average price for a decent mismatched Romanian VZ24. Again thanks. Ed

Forgot,Thanks for the link. I printed it out and will keep it for reference. Ed
 
Last edited:
mauserdad said:
It would be interesting to know if there are any other old KCN members here. Ed
Click to expand...

There are a few of us here. I caught it at the tail end and would have been what we call a lurker. I just read and read my participation was limited.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top